From jgomezdans at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 09:11:54 2005
From: jgomezdans at gmail.com (Jose Gomez-Dans)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:11:54 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Rasters, Vectors and spatial databases
In-Reply-To: <931f8ea905072906136ac143fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91d218430507290506653dc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<931f8ea905072906136ac143fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91d21843050801001141489b2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Frank,
Thank you very much for your prompt reply. It is really very appreciated!
> OGR, the vector side of GDAL/OGR can support Oracle Spatial,
> so in if you build it carefully to include Oracle support you could use
> OGR to extract the polygon(s) from Oracle.  Either at the commandline
> with ogr2ogr, using the C++ API or perhaps from Python.

OK, this looks like a doable possibility. There's also a C interface
to OGR, is there not?
 
> I'm not sure what you have been using to rasterize he polygons so
> far, but I do know of folks doing this sort of thing with MapServer.
> The whole process could also be automated in GRASS which includes
> GDAL raster access and OGR vector access as well as good polygon
> rasterization for masking, and sophisticated sorts of raster analysis.
> You might need to be somewhat handy with shell scripting to automate
> it in GRASS.

I think my colleagues working ont he GIS side have used some
propietary software, but rasterisation is problematic for a number of
reasons, and needs a fair bit of user input. Ideally, I would like to
have the polygon edges, and select the pixel values which lie within
said polygon. I have coded similar algorithms in the past, but have
found that my implementation was *ahem* not optimal :), and I was
thinking that there ought to be a better implementation. OSSIM has an
implementation  (see
<http://www.remotesensing.org/doxygen/ossim/classossimPolygon.html#a27>),
so this could be re-implemented (given it is free software) for our
purposes. I was actually wondering whether GDAL and OGR are connected
somehow.

Again, thank you for your comments,
Jos?



From fwarmerdam at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 16:33:58 2005
From: fwarmerdam at gmail.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 10:33:58 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Rasters, Vectors and spatial databases
In-Reply-To: <91d21843050801001141489b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <91d218430507290506653dc98@mail.gmail.com>
	<931f8ea905072906136ac143fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<91d21843050801001141489b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <931f8ea905080107337b64940@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/1/05, Jose Gomez-Dans <jgomezdans at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Frank,
> Thank you very much for your prompt reply. It is really very appreciated!
> > OGR, the vector side of GDAL/OGR can support Oracle Spatial,
> > so in if you build it carefully to include Oracle support you could use
> > OGR to extract the polygon(s) from Oracle.  Either at the commandline
> > with ogr2ogr, using the C++ API or perhaps from Python.
> 
> OK, this looks like a doable possibility. There's also a C interface
> to OGR, is there not?

Jose, 

Yes, there is a C interface to OGR as well. 
 
> > I'm not sure what you have been using to rasterize he polygons so
> > far, but I do know of folks doing this sort of thing with MapServer.
> > The whole process could also be automated in GRASS which includes
> > GDAL raster access and OGR vector access as well as good polygon
> > rasterization for masking, and sophisticated sorts of raster analysis.
> > You might need to be somewhat handy with shell scripting to automate
> > it in GRASS.
> 
> I think my colleagues working ont he GIS side have used some
> propietary software, but rasterisation is problematic for a number of
> reasons, and needs a fair bit of user input. Ideally, I would like to
> have the polygon edges, and select the pixel values which lie within
> said polygon. I have coded similar algorithms in the past, but have
> found that my implementation was *ahem* not optimal :), and I was
> thinking that there ought to be a better implementation. OSSIM has an
> implementation  (see
> <http://www.remotesensing.org/doxygen/ossim/classossimPolygon.html#a27>),
> so this could be re-implemented (given it is free software) for our
> purposes. I was actually wondering whether GDAL and OGR are connected
> somehow.

I didn't actually see any methods on the ossimPolygon for rasterization.

If you are prepared to do some work reimplemnting, it should be
possible to use the polygon rasterization code from OpenEV 
(gvrasterize.c and llrasterize.c) or go back to GD for polygon 
rasterization code.  

Best regards,
-- 
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam at pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent



From carlos.grohmann at gmail.com  Mon Aug  1 19:28:27 2005
From: carlos.grohmann at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carlos_Gu=E2no_Grohmann?=)
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 14:28:27 -0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] OSSIM
Message-ID: <bd07447b05080110281e47baa5@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone can point me a good tutorial on how to build and start on OSSIM? 
I've been looking in remotesensing.org, but I foud the pages a little
confuse.. lots of files in sourceforge but little explanation, broken
links cited in readme etc..

tks
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
              Carlos Henrique Grohmann - Guano   
  Geologist M.Sc  - Doctorate Student at IGc-USP - Brazil
Linux User #89721  - carlos dot grohmann at gmail dot com
+-----------------------------------------------------------+



From jan at intevation.de  Wed Aug  3 14:45:02 2005
From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner)
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 14:45:02 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Looking for a FreeGIS maintainer for geodata
	entries
In-Reply-To: <20050719092906.GL13160@vishnu.tridity.org>
References: <20050714133117.GA24683@intevation.de>
	<d8ce3090050717144462a2d44e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050718213333.GA2472@intevation.de>
	<20050719092906.GL13160@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <20050803124502.GA30375@intevation.de>

On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 02:29:06AM -0700, Jo Walsh wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 11:33:33PM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> > licensing for geodata is indeed a matter that needs further discussion.
> > So far, most datasets are Public Domain or some BSDish license, some
> > are GNU GPL. Some CC are interesting as well.
> 
> on the openstreetmap mailing list we've had a lot of discussion about
> open geodata licensing in a practical context, leading to no definite
> conclusion other than a loose convergence on CC-BY-SA but that too has
> its drawbacks.
> 
> http://bat.vr.ucl.ac.uk/pipermail/openstreetmap/2005-January/000211.html
> http://bat.vr.ucl.ac.uk/pipermail/openstreetmap/2005-February/000271.html
> http://bat.vr.ucl.ac.uk/pipermail/openstreetmap/2005-April/000488.html
> 
> Giles Lane got advice from Creative Commons UK on putting together a
> CC-style license as a model for the Ordnance Survey which could be
> uses for nonprofit licensing of possibly slightly generalised
> state-collected geodata.
> http://www.okfn.org/geo/geodata_cc_license_draft.rtf

IMHO any license excluding commercial use creates the risk for
anyone using the data because "commercial use" is not defined.

In practice, even most universities can not be called anymore
to act non-commercial.
The same applies to "non-profit". A profit can even be any
arbitrary thing other than money.

Best

	Jan
-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/



From fwarmerdam at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 22:26:40 2005
From: fwarmerdam at gmail.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:26:40 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] FWTools 0.9.9 Released
Message-ID: <931f8ea905081513267c70c103@mail.gmail.com>

Folks,

The FWTools 0.9.9 release is now available.   FWTools is a packaged
build including recent snapshots of OpenEV, MapServer, GDAL, PROJ.4
and a variety of underlying packages.  It aims to be "cutting edge" with
recent developments and also to include as many optional formats
as practical.  It also includes a complete Python instance, and python
binding support for GDAL and MapServer. 

It should work smoothly on Windows, and most 32bit Intel Linux platforms 
regardless of native packaging system.  

More information is available at:

  http://fwtools.maptools.org/

Direct downloads are available from:

Windows:
  http://www.gdal.org/dl/fwtools/FWTools099.exe

Linux:
  http://www.gdal.org/dl/fwtools/FWTools-linux-0.9.9.tar.gz

Best regards,  
-- 
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam at pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent



From fwarmerdam at gmail.com  Mon Aug 15 23:42:52 2005
From: fwarmerdam at gmail.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:42:52 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] GDAL/OGR 1.3.0 Released
Message-ID: <931f8ea905081514427f6eed62@mail.gmail.com>

Folks,

At last, the GDAL/OGR 1.3.0 final release is out there.  

  http://www.gdal.org/dl/gdal-1.3.0.tar.gz
  http://www.gdal.org/dl/gdal130.zip


From bh at udev.org  Tue Aug 16 00:28:54 2005
From: bh at udev.org (Benjamin Henrion)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:28:54 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
Message-ID: <20050815222854.GR22595@localhost>

Hi,

I had a look at the amendments proposed in second reading by
Parliament/Council on the Inspire Directive, but none of the amendments
seems to say that data collected with public money should be put in the
Public Domain, like it seems to be the case in the US (if you can
clarify the situation of geo-data in the US, please do so).

The current legislative proposal seems to go for strong copyright for
geo-data producers, in order to "recover their costs".

This is a shame for public geo-data, and I think a campaign should be
launched for rejection.

No new amendments can be introduced for the second reading in the
European Parliament.

--
Benjamin Henrion <bh at udev.org>
http://bh.udev.org
<<                 Software patents are a Temptation                     >>>
<<                  Temptation leads to Stagnation                       >>>
<<                Stagnation leads to the Dark Side.                     >>>



From mike-nospam at orb.dreamhost.com  Tue Aug 16 07:01:39 2005
From: mike-nospam at orb.dreamhost.com (Mike M)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:01:39 -0500
Subject: [Freegis-list] Algorithms/Code Needed to Remove Overlap of Markers
	on a Map
Message-ID: <20050816050140.B162053831@hoggle.dreamhost.com>

I am looking for algorithms to reduce/remove overlap/stacking of geographic
coordinate markers on a map. These markers are an overlay on a map (in my
case the new Google Maps API). 

The algorithm would accept a set of points and dimensions of the marker used
at each point, and would re-arrange the points so that marker overlap is
either reduced by to zero or some tunable amount (for example, you might
specify that every point should be at least 50% visible).

I've seen this type of algorithm described as geometric packing. So far I
have come up empty on searches (I'm still looking though), and wanted to see
if anyone knows of any free GIS APIs/systems that provide this, as perhaps I
can re-use their algorithm(s). Or general algorithms I should seek out.

Many thanks,
-Mike

P.S. I'm probably using incorrect terms here: I am a geodata / computational
programming newbie.



From gould at lsi.uji.es  Tue Aug 16 09:51:01 2005
From: gould at lsi.uji.es (michael gould)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:51:01 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <20050815222854.GR22595@localhost>
Message-ID: <000201c5a237$3fb47820$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>

Benjamin,

You have hit upon a concern that has been voiced repeatedly on the EGIP
(egip at jrc.it) and other Inspire-related lists. The Inspire proposed
framework directive is being watered down, as these Euro agreements often
do, through the comitology (co-decision) process. Whereas in many
governments bipartisan agreement must be reached...or perhaps among 4 or 5
parties...here we have 25+ chiming in, and also tension between Parliament,
Council and Commission.

The current thinking among Inspire creators/supporters, is that it is better
to get a weak directive signed, and then work on the implementation rules to
try to tighten things up, than to try to get a strong version passed up
front only to see it rejected for all sorts of minor objections from each of
the 25+. It's called consensus, and it's how OGC and other orgs (and most
governments) get things done. (Remember that Europe has a 20+ year history
of GI initiatives dying unsigned on some Commissioner's desktop; this time
we want some sort of result!)

The process of drafting implementation rules is already under way; the first
meeting of the so-called Drafting Teams is Oct 3-4. I am on the metadata DT,
and will do my best to try to get things tightened up there: not merely
state that ISO19115/39 should be implemented, but rather demanding, in as
strong a language as possible, that md generation be automated and made
easier (and even fun) to create and publish. Also that the "right" md be
collected in the right way at the right time. If not then perhaps the whole
house of cards falls, in the same sense that other semantic web initiatives
rely on md glue holding them together.

Back to your point. Campaign for rejection? I don't think that wise, as
currently there is no alternative solution on the table...so at this time
what we have is better than nothing. The current GI situation in Europe is
heavily NMA-controlled, however I see their position(s) evolving some over
the past few years. I anticipate they will tend toward a new role as SDI
coordinators (as apparently USGS is doing also) rather than (only) data
producers. As coordinators they will find the current licensing and pricing
schemes too messy and will themselves lobby for more open distribution
(sharing) among the partners they are coordinating.

Alternative to campaign for rejection? Gentle pressure in the form of
alternatives proposed on lists such as this one. It is my impression that
more radical approaches --especially those from individuals or small groups
labeling themselves as hackers (!)-- do not get decision-makers' attention
and are too easily dismissed. Practical demos of how things could be
different seem to be working better. The people at geowankers list are good
at producing these examples...new ideas appear daily.

But remember that complete solutions are not only tech-related. They need to
include solutions for tricky legal issues such as digital rights management,
versioning, etc.

So let's hear fully-developed ideas on how to migrate 25 NMAs from cost
recovery mode to public dissemination mode!

These are going to be interesting times (next 5 years or so).

-----------
Michael Gould
Department of Information Systems (LSI)
Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castell?n Spain
E-mail: gould (at) lsi.uji.es
http://www.mgould.com
http://www.geoinfo.uji.es
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de
[mailto:freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de] En nombre de Benjamin Henrion
Enviado el: martes, 16 de agosto de 2005 0:29
Para: freegis-list at intevation.de
Asunto: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?

Hi,

I had a look at the amendments proposed in second reading by
Parliament/Council on the Inspire Directive, but none of the amendments
seems to say that data collected with public money should be put in the
Public Domain, like it seems to be the case in the US (if you can
clarify the situation of geo-data in the US, please do so).

The current legislative proposal seems to go for strong copyright for
geo-data producers, in order to "recover their costs".

This is a shame for public geo-data, and I think a campaign should be
launched for rejection.

No new amendments can be introduced for the second reading in the
European Parliament.

--
Benjamin Henrion <bh at udev.org>
http://bh.udev.org
<<                 Software patents are a Temptation                     >>>
<<                  Temptation leads to Stagnation                       >>>
<<                Stagnation leads to the Dark Side.                     >>>

_______________________________________________
Freegis-list mailing list
Freegis-list at intevation.de
https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list




From taw at users.sf.net  Tue Aug 16 14:09:30 2005
From: taw at users.sf.net (Tomasz Wegrzanowski)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:09:30 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Algorithms/Code Needed to Remove Overlap of
	Markers on a Map
In-Reply-To: <20050816050140.B162053831@hoggle.dreamhost.com>
References: <20050816050140.B162053831@hoggle.dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <20050816120930.GA24057@taw.pl.eu.org>

On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 12:01:39AM -0500, Mike M wrote:
> I am looking for algorithms to reduce/remove overlap/stacking of geographic
> coordinate markers on a map. These markers are an overlay on a map (in my
> case the new Google Maps API). 
> 
> The algorithm would accept a set of points and dimensions of the marker used
> at each point, and would re-arrange the points so that marker overlap is
> either reduced by to zero or some tunable amount (for example, you might
> specify that every point should be at least 50% visible).
> 
> I've seen this type of algorithm described as geometric packing. So far I
> have come up empty on searches (I'm still looking though), and wanted to see
> if anyone knows of any free GIS APIs/systems that provide this, as perhaps I
> can re-use their algorithm(s). Or general algorithms I should seek out.

I think what the problem you're referring to is usually called
"label placement" problem, which is NP-hard, and the solution you're
looking for is the "simulated annealing" algorithm, which doesn't guarantee
anything, but is very fast and efficient in typical cases, but requires
a bit of problem-specifitc tuning.

There are plenty of papers on simulated annealing and its application in
GIS available online.



From ari.jolma at tkk.fi  Wed Aug 17 09:38:32 2005
From: ari.jolma at tkk.fi (Ari Jolma)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:38:32 +0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and the academia
Message-ID: <4302E978.7050301@tkk.fi>

Hello,

I'm interested in the links between the GIS industry and academia. By 
"GIS industry" I mean also FOSS GIS, of which a growing part is outside 
academia. How could we strengthen the link between the academia and the 
developers of the free GI software? My background is not in computer 
science nor in geography/surveying but I've been writing some GI 
software related for my research (I'm not actually sure which way the 
causal link is). Now I guess I should be focusing more in GI software 
development in my research as also in teaching. In general I feel that I 
don't know well enough what would be relevant research, which would 1) 
benefit free GIS and 2) get funded. I attended OSG'05, and that was very 
helpful in this respect. For example I would be interested in usability 
/ interface related topics.

ESRI used to be quite good in getting the top researchers contribute (or 
sell, I guess) their results to ArcGIS (at least methods, I don't know 
about interface or other things), but I've heard rumours that they are 
not happy with the current situation. So maybe we can expect more 
university labs become ESRI development labs? (I see some worrying signs 
in my university). GRASS probably gets much input from academia but a 
lot more could be done.

I'm thinking about (in fact, I've been asked to) organising a workshop 
at the iEMSs 2006 conference, and this is the topic I have in mind. The 
workshop would focus on links between environmental modellers and 
geoinformaticians, as the topic of the conference is environmental 
modelling, but the links should be discussed also from the point of view 
of environmental management practitioners and freegis developers.

Ari

-- 
Prof. Ari Jolma
Kartografia ja Geoinformatiikka / Cartography and Geoinformatics
Teknillinen Korkeakoulu / Helsinki University of Technology
POBox 1200, 02015 TKK, Finland
Email: ari.jolma at tkk.fi URL: http://www.tkk.fi/~jolma



From Michel.Garand at frankfurt-oder.de  Wed Aug 17 10:29:56 2005
From: Michel.Garand at frankfurt-oder.de (Michel.Garand@frankfurt-oder.de)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:29:56 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] UNDP-APDIP's draft primer on Free/Open Source
	Software: Open Stan dards
Message-ID: <4951B8C94306D9118ABF00105A096D7E01286AAD@nt_server_3.frankfurt-oder.de>

Greetings!

below is a communiqu? from the UNDP-APDIP International Open Source Network
/ FOSS-PDI mailing list which seeks public feedback and comments to its
draft document concerning FOSS /Open Standards.

If anyone feels to be an expert in this field, please lets help them with
info regarding standards in the area of GIS / SDI.

Best regards,

Michel Garand
Stadt Frankfurt (Oder)
Abteilung Stadtentwicklung
> Amt f?r Strategie, Wirtschafts- und Stadtentwicklung
Goepelstrasse 38, D-15234 Frankfurt (Oder), Germany
Tel.: +49 (0)335 / 552-6016
Fax: +49 (0)335 / 552-6099
michel.garand at frankfurt-oder.de	

#########################################################################

UNDP-APDIP's International Open Source Network has produced a draft
primer on Free/Open Source Software: Open Standards.

Date: August 16th 2005

Download the primer:

* Open Document format (111KB)
http://www.iosn.net/open-standards/foss-open-standards-primer/foss-openstds-
v01-1.odt
        
* PDF format (485KB)
http://www.iosn.net/open-standards/foss-open-standards-primer/foss-openstds-
v01-1.pdf


Many public institutions like government agencies and civil society
organizations are obliged by new legislation to place information in the
public domain. Unfortunately many of them are using proprietary formats
which require members of the public to purchase or illegally copy
proprietary software. This primer provides an overview of standards
setting bodies and FOSS software and tools to create new content as well
as migrate to solutions based on Open Standards. 

The primer provides existing case studies on the polices and initiatives
of governments implementing open standards policies. It also covers
current patent and licensing issues with Open Standards implementations.

This IOSN Primer is an initiative of UNDP Asia-Pacific Development
Information Programme and supported by the International Development
Research Centre (IDRC)

** This pre-publication version is made available for public review and
feedback. Please do not cite or quote.  **

Feedback and comments are welcome and should be received by 5th
September 2005. 

Please send feedback to info at iosn.net

This publication is released under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.5
license.  For full details of the license, please refer to the
following: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/legalcode



Contact:

Sunil Abraham and Khairil Yusof
info at iosn.net

Tel: (66-2) 288-1234


About UNDP-APDIP International Open Source Network
--------------------------------------------------

The International Open Source Network (IOSN - http://www.iosn.net) is a
Centre of Excellence for Free/Open Source Software in the Asia-Pacific
Region. IOSN is an initiative of the Asia-Pacific Information
Development Programme (APDIP - http://www.apdip.net), which has been
supporting the strategic and effective use of Information Communication
Technology (ICT) for poverty alleviation and sustainable human
development in the Asia-Pacific region since 1997. Via a small
secretariat, the IOSN is tasked specifically to facilitate and network
Free/Open Source Software advocates and human resources in the region.

About the International Development Research Center (IDRC)
----------------------------------------------------------

The IDRC is a Canadian public corporation that works in close
collaboration with researchers from the developing world in their search
for the means to build healthier, more equitable, and more prosperous
societies. For more information please see http://www.idrc.ca.

_______________________________________________
FOSS-PDI mailing list
FOSS-PDI at lists.apdip.net
http://lists.apdip.net/mailman/listinfo/foss-pdi
FOSS-PDI is a joint initiative of Bridges.org (www.bridges.org); FOSSFA
(www.fossfa.net); OWSA (www.oneworldsouthasia.net,
www.digitalopportunity.org); UNDP/APDIP (www.apdip.net); APDIP/IOSN
(www.iosn.net); UNESCO (www.unesco.org).




From jo at frot.org  Wed Aug 17 11:48:05 2005
From: jo at frot.org (Jo Walsh)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 02:48:05 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <000201c5a237$3fb47820$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
References: <20050815222854.GR22595@localhost>
	<000201c5a237$3fb47820$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
Message-ID: <20050817094805.GW22515@vishnu.tridity.org>

dear Michael, list, 

On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 09:51:01AM +0200, michael gould wrote:
> The current thinking among Inspire creators/supporters, is that it is better
> to get a weak directive signed, and then work on the implementation rules to
> try to tighten things up.

It would be good to hear your assessment of where the proposed Directive
has been 'weakened' and how that might be subject to fixing
non-legislatively. 
  
> The current GI situation in Europe is
> heavily NMA-controlled, however I see their position(s) evolving some over
> the past few years. 

To an EU process and GI industry outsider, it looks as if INSPIRE has
been dictated by the concerns of a cartel of National Mapping Agency
representatives, at the expense of data holders and users. These are
valid concerns: because NMAs can and do operate in competitive commercial 
markets, government pressure to semi-privatise mapping agencies,
and reduce their public budget is intense. 
This is part of a bigger debate surrounding the ethics, if you like,
of commercialising government-collected information of all kinds. 

The 'weak' directive does not reflect this debate; it enshrines
existing copyright and IP policies in EU law, decreasing our
chances of amending it locally. It entrenches the NMAs in a historic
position, rather than reflecting their changing role as it rapidly
emerges. It makes expensive and unnecessary stipulations about data
distribution, *mandating* e-commerce services for all geodata sources
that are not openly accessible - quite a cost and implementation
burden in itself.  

> producers. As coordinators they will find the current licensing and pricing
> schemes too messy and will themselves lobby for more open distribution
> (sharing) among the partners they are coordinating.

Then why the rush to entrench IP stances in EU law now? Again, why
can't this be addressed at the national level before rushing into a
Directive that is evasive and unclear? 
 
> Alternative to campaign for rejection? Gentle pressure in the form of
> alternatives proposed on lists such as this one. It is my impression that
> more radical approaches --especially those from individuals or small groups
> labeling themselves as hackers (!)-- do not get decision-makers' attention
> and are too easily dismissed. 

I understand that to have a voice at an EU level, one needs to be not
merely an organisation, but a coalition of organisations. These
structures reflect the priorities of large-scale business and
professional lobbying organisations, not of loose groups of small
companies and individual developers.  

This is why we set up http://www.okfn.org/geo/ and why, as a small
coalition of projects, we've been working to propose a not-for-profit
free license for state-collected geodata, generalised if necessary, 
very similar to that being used by the BBC to provide more open access to
its archives.

I've been Inspire-watching for a year and would have had no idea how
to submit amendments or acquire a voice in the process; especially
when large coalitions of state-funded data holders and creators (the
marine/oceanographic people) have had their needs and views sidelined.

> Practical demos of how things could be
> different seem to be working better. 

"Chicken, meet egg." Most of the interesting activity on the
geowanking list is from US and some Canadian projects. Without open access 
to the GI that describes our own parts of the world, how can we
develop metadata sharing and web services solutions that will appear
meaningful, recognisable to those we are trying to convince? 

I co-authored 'Mapping Hacks' to have the chance to present
interesting Open Source GIS tools and semantic web principles in the
context of the data access and dissemination debate. I hang my head
when i confess to my UK/EU friends that 75% of the 'hacks' in the book
are only possible in the US because of the data access policy that
obtains there. 

I don't keep up with the OpenSDI conversation, but there is at least a
candidate free software solution for Total Spatial Data Infrastructure
in the world. I don't see where the route to informing 'decision
makers' at the INSPIRE level of these solutions is. Can you help?     

> But remember that complete solutions are not only tech-related. They need to
> include solutions for tricky legal issues such as digital rights management,
> versioning, etc.

Without access to real-world, meaningful data to make test cases out
of, we can't develop these solutions at a free-software, free-time
level.

> So let's hear fully-developed ideas on how to migrate 25 NMAs from cost
> recovery mode to public dissemination mode!

I would rather hear these ideas emerging from the NMAs themselves, or
hear more about where this debate is being conducted inside the
INSPIRE implementation process now.

I think that a free-for-non-profit-use license, available without
supplication, is the turnkey in enabling academic and private
researchers to build integration and translation solutions driven by
their own needs. 

Given the messy history of European GI directives i appreciate that
you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. 

I would like to see an alternative to INSPIRE and deeply regret having
been unable to mobilise an amendment campaign before the first reading
was complete. I'd like to see an analysis of where it is really still 
weak, and where it makes IP and copyright assumptions that will
suppress innovation and economic activity, before any campaign to
throw the whole thing out, which i fear would just be an energy sink
for those of us working towards free information infrastructures.

http://www.ael.be/index.php/InspireDirective seems like a good place
to start, at least.

Paolo, i think, suggested a while back that the freegis 'community'
could be putting together a whitepaper on open standards, open source
driven approaches to the 'implementing rules'. Again, i don't know how
such proposals are inserted or accepted into the INSPIRE working
groups, or how to make sure this would just not sink without trace.

This is perhaps not the FFII's normal thing, Benjamin, but perhaps it 
could help assemble a 'working group' / provide online space for such
an effort.

> These are going to be interesting times (next 5 years or so).

I'm still waiting for the Big Information Crunch.


-jo



From gould at lsi.uji.es  Wed Aug 17 13:29:09 2005
From: gould at lsi.uji.es (michael gould)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:29:09 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <20050817094805.GW22515@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>

Good to hear from you Jo. Brief responses below in-line.

-----------
Michael Gould
Department of Information Systems (LSI)
Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castell?n Spain
E-mail: gould (at) lsi.uji.es
http://www.mgould.com
http://www.geoinfo.uji.es
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jo Walsh [mailto:jo at frot.org] 
Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto de 2005 11:48
Para: michael gould
CC: 'Benjamin Henrion'; freegis-list at intevation.de
Asunto: Re: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?

dear Michael, list, 

On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 09:51:01AM +0200, michael gould wrote:
> The current thinking among Inspire creators/supporters, is that it is
better
> to get a weak directive signed, and then work on the implementation rules
to
> try to tighten things up.

It would be good to hear your assessment of where the proposed Directive
has been 'weakened' and how that might be subject to fixing
non-legislatively. 
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] Chris Corbin has been publishing (EGIP list) a stream of
documents coming out of the comitology process, so you have lots of examples
there, where plenty of "must"s have become "should"s, etc.
And then the document states in many places that it is up to each member
state to detrmine how each guideline or rule is applied. Standard EU
practice.

  
> The current GI situation in Europe is
> heavily NMA-controlled, however I see their position(s) evolving some over
> the past few years. 

To an EU process and GI industry outsider, it looks as if INSPIRE has
been dictated by the concerns of a cartel of National Mapping Agency
representatives, at the expense of data holders and users. These are
valid concerns: because NMAs can and do operate in competitive commercial 
markets, government pressure to semi-privatise mapping agencies,
and reduce their public budget is intense. 
This is part of a bigger debate surrounding the ethics, if you like,
of commercialising government-collected information of all kinds. 
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] Regarding the NMAs dictating, please remember that the EU is a
union of member states, who always have the last word. Member states are
made up of ministries, and one or another in each MS runs the NMA.
So naturally NMAs are going to have a LOT more say than you or I do.


The 'weak' directive does not reflect this debate; it enshrines
existing copyright and IP policies in EU law, decreasing our
chances of amending it locally. It entrenches the NMAs in a historic
position, rather than reflecting their changing role as it rapidly
emerges. It makes expensive and unnecessary stipulations about data
distribution, *mandating* e-commerce services for all geodata sources
that are not openly accessible - quite a cost and implementation
burden in itself. 
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] It seems a rather typical agreement...not perfect but good enough
to get passed. If you put too many teeth in it, the MS representatives would
simply be ordered to vote NO and go on to the next issue on their agenda.
It's trickier business than many of us might expect.

> producers. As coordinators they will find the current licensing and
pricing
> schemes too messy and will themselves lobby for more open distribution
> (sharing) among the partners they are coordinating.

Then why the rush to entrench IP stances in EU law now? Again, why
can't this be addressed at the national level before rushing into a
Directive that is evasive and unclear? 
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] Because all previous attempts to lay anchor (i.e. have a Euro
equivalent to the Clinton mandate of 1994) have failed.
And I do not believe it is more evasive or unclear than all the rest... I
think it is just that here we are more sensitized.
And regarding the national level, essentially EVERYTHING does happen at
national level, implementation-wise at least. This framework directive
attempts to harmonize national efforts, so that Europe ends up with more or
less a single coherent puzzle of national SDI pieces (each composed of local
pieces)...? la GSM, instead of a sordid collection of 25+ pieces (25+
special case SDIs) that do not fit together.
 
> Alternative to campaign for rejection? Gentle pressure in the form of
> alternatives proposed on lists such as this one. It is my impression that
> more radical approaches --especially those from individuals or small
groups
> labeling themselves as hackers (!)-- do not get decision-makers' attention
> and are too easily dismissed. 

I understand that to have a voice at an EU level, one needs to be not
merely an organisation, but a coalition of organisations. These
structures reflect the priorities of large-scale business and
professional lobbying organisations, not of loose groups of small
companies and individual developers.  

This is why we set up http://www.okfn.org/geo/ and why, as a small
coalition of projects, we've been working to propose a not-for-profit
free license for state-collected geodata, generalised if necessary, 
very similar to that being used by the BBC to provide more open access to
its archives.
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] Great idea!! Go for it! The more critical mass the better, but
remember that status quo proposals are best fought against (and corrected)
by sound counter-proposals. Politicians are not going to simply drop an
initiative and leave a vacuum; they need viable alternatives.

I've been Inspire-watching for a year and would have had no idea how
to submit amendments or acquire a voice in the process; especially
when large coalitions of state-funded data holders and creators (the
marine/oceanographic people) have had their needs and views sidelined.
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] I understand your frustration. But I cannot imagine that "our"
voices were any stronger or relevant during the GSM hearings, or before many
other important initiatives were heard. Here in Spain the socialist
government won in the 1980s on the campaign pledge to keep out of NATO. Then
they won and joined NATO. A few years back the centre-right party decided to
join Bush and Blair in Iraq, despite something like 80% of the population
opposed.  Not to be overly pessimistic mind you :-)

A recent example: the PSI directive is now in force, supposedly. Do you see
any difference where you live? Here there is supposely a commission
(ministry of Culture!) to decide what to do about it...I am not holding my
breath.  Question is (IMHO): are we better with or without the PSI on the
books? Same goes for Inspire I suspect.  A similarly vague Clinton mandate
seems to have served USA...although arguably the results have not been
spectacular.

> Practical demos of how things could be
> different seem to be working better. 

"Chicken, meet egg." Most of the interesting activity on the
geowanking list is from US and some Canadian projects. Without open access 
to the GI that describes our own parts of the world, how can we
develop metadata sharing and web services solutions that will appear
meaningful, recognisable to those we are trying to convince?
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] In my mind a demo of interoperable map servers (and the like)
showing mostly data from outside our region IS indeed useful, because it
shines a spotlight on our own lack of access. Also, in many european
countries data layers are being released, slowly... You happen to live in a
special-case (for multiple reasons) member state :-(

I co-authored 'Mapping Hacks' to have the chance to present
interesting Open Source GIS tools and semantic web principles in the
context of the data access and dissemination debate. I hang my head
when i confess to my UK/EU friends that 75% of the 'hacks' in the book
are only possible in the US because of the data access policy that
obtains there. 
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] That and other such publications and demos ARE helping to change
minds. Rest assured that you are on the (short) list of individuals who
really do make a difference in this debate.

I don't keep up with the OpenSDI conversation, but there is at least a
candidate free software solution for Total Spatial Data Infrastructure
in the world. I don't see where the route to informing 'decision
makers' at the INSPIRE level of these solutions is. Can you help?
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] Thre EGIP list. The EC-GIS conference, recently held in Sardinia.
And also the Inspire website, where you are invited to contribute papers and
other possibly useful docs to the process.

> But remember that complete solutions are not only tech-related. They need
to
> include solutions for tricky legal issues such as digital rights
management,
> versioning, etc.

Without access to real-world, meaningful data to make test cases out
of, we can't develop these solutions at a free-software, free-time
level.
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] Access to data could be a LOT better for sure. But the gvSIG
project (free soft gis/sdi client) in our region --to cite just one
example-- has found plenty of bits and pieces of data to demo. For demos we
are fine: the question is to get the demos to decision-makers' desks, and
have them ask the typical question "why doesn't my neighborhood show up?"
And careful, because now due to publicity many of these people have seen
Google Earth.!!! It is now on our shoulders to convince them that buying the
$149 version is not enough (that is, it's not a SDI)! :-)

> So let's hear fully-developed ideas on how to migrate 25 NMAs from cost
> recovery mode to public dissemination mode!

I would rather hear these ideas emerging from the NMAs themselves, or
hear more about where this debate is being conducted inside the
INSPIRE implementation process now.
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] NMAs follow their established chain of decisions. That is, they
do not search for innovation; they try their best to comply with the mandate
set by their minister. Convince the minister to change data access policy
and the NMA will gladly do so (in most cases). Those who argue that it's not
so simple need only be reminded that after most general elections, entire
ministries are merged, created and vaporized, at the swish of a pen.
In Portugal, a decade ago a young MBA-toting minister of technology and
whatever, decided to connect 100% of the nations schools to Internet, and so
it was. Spain is still hoping to some day reach 50%. 


I think that a free-for-non-profit-use license, available without
supplication, is the turnkey in enabling academic and private
researchers to build integration and translation solutions driven by
their own needs. 

Given the messy history of European GI directives i appreciate that
you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. 

I would like to see an alternative to INSPIRE and deeply regret having
been unable to mobilise an amendment campaign before the first reading
was complete. I'd like to see an analysis of where it is really still 
weak, and where it makes IP and copyright assumptions that will
suppress innovation and economic activity, before any campaign to
throw the whole thing out, which i fear would just be an energy sink
for those of us working towards free information infrastructures.

http://www.ael.be/index.php/InspireDirective seems like a good place
to start, at least.
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] I think perhaps we (you) are over- AND underestimating Inspire.
Overestimating the change it might effect...whereas not even the Inpsire
drafters are expecting miracles and complete turnaround of the GI data
market. And underestimating the mild effect that any directive may have in
pressuring some (most) data providers to provide better accessibility. As
mild, I argue, as was the effect of the Clinton Mandate.


Paolo, i think, suggested a while back that the freegis 'community'
could be putting together a whitepaper on open standards, open source
driven approaches to the 'implementing rules'. Again, i don't know how
such proposals are inserted or accepted into the INSPIRE working
groups, or how to make sure this would just not sink without trace.

This is perhaps not the FFII's normal thing, Benjamin, but perhaps it 
could help assemble a 'working group' / provide online space for such
an effort.
[gould>>>] 
[gould>>>] I agree that the bottom-up approach should be followed at the
same time we are awaiting improvements from the top-down. I might even go so
far as predict that the way technology is progressing (GPS, RFID, free
software, cell phone capabilities, map servers, google-like apps, etc.) that
NMAs and their products may indeed become irrelevant to all but the small
core of partner government agencies.


> These are going to be interesting times (next 5 years or so).

I'm still waiting for the Big Information Crunch.
[gould>>>] Please elaborate!

Ciao,
MG


-jo




From jan at intevation.de  Thu Aug 18 12:11:50 2005
From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:11:50 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and the
	academia
In-Reply-To: <4302E978.7050301@tkk.fi>
References: <4302E978.7050301@tkk.fi>
Message-ID: <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>

On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 10:38:32AM +0300, Ari Jolma wrote:
> I'm interested in the links between the GIS industry and academia. By 
> "GIS industry" I mean also FOSS GIS, of which a growing part is outside 
> academia. How could we strengthen the link between the academia and the 
> developers of the free GI software?

I have some general remarks:

- IMHO, a GIS methodology should be explained in general
  and then tried in practice with at least two different
  tools.
  Students learn to know that there are alternatives
  and how to evaluate them. A qualification I miss for many
  students.
  Hopefully at least one of the tried tools is a Free Software,
  because students can actually look at the implementation
  of a discussed algorithm - wow!

- If ever something is implemented during studies, the result
  should be Free Software. Even better is to start upon
  a Free Software and invent something new rather then
  invent the wheel again. Contributing to a existing project
  improves a lot more skills than just geoinformatics. Good
  for the students.

Both, the proprietary and the Free Software GIS industry will
be interested in such students.

Best

	Jan

-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/



From gould at lsi.uji.es  Thu Aug 18 13:29:44 2005
From: gould at lsi.uji.es (michael gould)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:29:44 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and
	theacademia
In-Reply-To: <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <000801c5a3e8$2221d570$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>

Jan,  Some university programs focus on employment, and for them it's
important the students know the most popular software...usually proprietary.
Others focus on concepts...with the idea that the students should know --as
you say--- the alternatives available, and that to get a job done the brand
name is not so important. For our computer science students *using* GIS is
not very interesting; they prefer to --and do-- program their own solutions.
This is FAR easier now that important libraries and components are available
(foss), than was the case a decade ago. In that sense I don't see how foss
develpers and academia could collaborate more...things are pretty open and
fluid from what I can see.

Our students collaborate directly with the gvSIG foss project. In fact,
instead of keeping them around after graduation, as a sort of temporary
research associate (with uncertain future), I have been turning them loose
to work for/with the government agency and contracted company which are
producing gvSIG.


Ciao,
-----------
Michael Gould
Department of Information Systems (LSI)
Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castell?n Spain
E-mail: gould (at) lsi.uji.es
http://www.mgould.com
http://www.geoinfo.uji.es
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de
[mailto:freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de] En nombre de Jan-Oliver Wagner
Enviado el: jueves, 18 de agosto de 2005 12:12
Para: freegis-list at intevation.de
Asunto: Re: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and
theacademia

On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 10:38:32AM +0300, Ari Jolma wrote:
> I'm interested in the links between the GIS industry and academia. By 
> "GIS industry" I mean also FOSS GIS, of which a growing part is outside 
> academia. How could we strengthen the link between the academia and the 
> developers of the free GI software?

I have some general remarks:

- IMHO, a GIS methodology should be explained in general
  and then tried in practice with at least two different
  tools.
  Students learn to know that there are alternatives
  and how to evaluate them. A qualification I miss for many
  students.
  Hopefully at least one of the tried tools is a Free Software,
  because students can actually look at the implementation
  of a discussed algorithm - wow!

- If ever something is implemented during studies, the result
  should be Free Software. Even better is to start upon
  a Free Software and invent something new rather then
  invent the wheel again. Contributing to a existing project
  improves a lot more skills than just geoinformatics. Good
  for the students.

Both, the proprietary and the Free Software GIS industry will
be interested in such students.

Best

	Jan

-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/

_______________________________________________
Freegis-list mailing list
Freegis-list at intevation.de
https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list




From jan at intevation.de  Thu Aug 18 15:21:16 2005
From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:21:16 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and
	theacademia
In-Reply-To: <000801c5a3e8$2221d570$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
References: <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>
	<000801c5a3e8$2221d570$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
Message-ID: <20050818132116.GB31651@intevation.de>

Michael,

On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 01:29:44PM +0200, michael gould wrote:
> Jan,  Some university programs focus on employment, and for them it's
> important the students know the most popular software...usually proprietary.
> Others focus on concepts...with the idea that the students should know --as
> you say--- the alternatives available, and that to get a job done the brand
> name is not so important.

I hope _any_ university tagets good chances for employment of their
students ;-)
The target employers may differ though.

In Germany with have in theory the concept of universities and
polytechnics. The latter give a more close-to-commercial-practice
education while universities concentrate on conceptual thinking.
A ESRI product training might be OK for polytechnics, but not for
a university.
Well, in real life unfortunately many universities turned
to mono-product training as well believing that they are more
attractive for students this way (and more attractive
for the government to give them money).

> For our computer science students *using* GIS is
> not very interesting; they prefer to --and do-- program their own solutions.
> This is FAR easier now that important libraries and components are available
> (foss), than was the case a decade ago. In that sense I don't see how foss
> develpers and academia could collaborate more...things are pretty open and
> fluid from what I can see.
> 
> Our students collaborate directly with the gvSIG foss project. In fact,
> instead of keeping them around after graduation, as a sort of temporary
> research associate (with uncertain future), I have been turning them loose
> to work for/with the government agency and contracted company which are
> producing gvSIG.

I can only recommend to study at Michael's university where
the right spirit lives :-)

Best

	Jan
-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/



From dallas.masters at colorado.edu  Thu Aug 18 17:24:04 2005
From: dallas.masters at colorado.edu (dallas.masters@colorado.edu)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:24:04 -0600
Subject: [Freegis-list] reading 32 bit/sample tiffs
Message-ID: <m3u0hnfeuj.fsf@penhir.kerigou.com>

I recently downloaded a NED 1/3 elevation Geotiff file from the USGS
SDDS (Seamless...).  The Geotiff has 32 bit/sample according to
tiffinfo, but I can't find anything simple (on Linux) which will read
this file or convert it to an 8 bit/sample file.  Any ideas?  Any
reason why USGS would distribute such a format?  Thanks.

Dallas
-- 
Dallas Masters, Ph.D.
Research Associate
Aerospace Engineering Sciences
CB 431 / CCAR
University of Colorado
Boulder, CO 80309-0431
(303) 492-4075
----------------------
http://www.venganza.org/



From fwarmerdam at gmail.com  Thu Aug 18 17:36:12 2005
From: fwarmerdam at gmail.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:36:12 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] reading 32 bit/sample tiffs
In-Reply-To: <m3u0hnfeuj.fsf@penhir.kerigou.com>
References: <m3u0hnfeuj.fsf@penhir.kerigou.com>
Message-ID: <931f8ea905081808365c0f2c0f@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/18/05, dallas.masters at colorado.edu <dallas.masters at colorado.edu> wrote:
> I recently downloaded a NED 1/3 elevation Geotiff file from the USGS
> SDDS (Seamless...).  The Geotiff has 32 bit/sample according to
> tiffinfo, but I can't find anything simple (on Linux) which will read
> this file or convert it to an 8 bit/sample file.  Any ideas?  Any
> reason why USGS would distribute such a format?  Thanks.

Dallas, 

I'm not sure of the details of the dataset.  Perhaps it is 32bit floating
point to preserve better than 1m vertical resolution. 

You can use "gdal_translate" to rescale this to 8bit using a command
like:

gdal_translate -scale -ot Byte 32bit_ned.tif 8bit_ned.tif

You can find prebuilt binaries for linux and win32 at:

  http://fwtools.maptools.org/

Details about GDAL are available at:

  http://www.gdal.org/

I'm not sure what you want to rescale the elevation data to 8bit for.
It won't be directly useful as elevation values any more.  Depending
on your needs you may find it helpful to convert to 16bit without
changing elevation values (well possibly truncating them):

  gdal_translate -ot Int16 32bit_ned.tif 16bit_ned.tif

Or controlling the scaling to 8bit:

  gdal_translate -scale 0 3000 0 255 -ot Byte in.tif out.tif

Best regards,
-- 
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam at pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent



From ari.jolma at tkk.fi  Fri Aug 19 09:53:57 2005
From: ari.jolma at tkk.fi (Ari Jolma)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:53:57 +0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and
	the	academia
In-Reply-To: <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>
References: <4302E978.7050301@tkk.fi> <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <43059015.3080104@tkk.fi>

Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:

>  Students learn to know that there are alternatives
>  and how to evaluate them. A qualification I miss for many
>  students.
>  
>

Maybe I'm just revealing my ignorance ;) but.. I should be teaching just 
that among other things. How would you go about it? Do you have any good 
texts in mind, especially GIS specific?

Ari

-- 
Prof. Ari Jolma
Kartografia ja Geoinformatiikka / Cartography and Geoinformatics
Teknillinen Korkeakoulu / Helsinki University of Technology
POBox 1200, 02015 TKK, Finland
Email: ari.jolma at tkk.fi URL: http://www.tkk.fi/~jolma



From jan at intevation.de  Fri Aug 19 10:14:00 2005
From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:14:00 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and
	the	academia
In-Reply-To: <43059015.3080104@tkk.fi>
References: <4302E978.7050301@tkk.fi> <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>
	<43059015.3080104@tkk.fi>
Message-ID: <20050819081400.GE6129@intevation.de>

On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 10:53:57AM +0300, Ari Jolma wrote:
> Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> > Students learn to know that there are alternatives
> > and how to evaluate them. A qualification I miss for many
> > students.
> 
> Maybe I'm just revealing my ignorance ;) but.. I should be teaching just 
> that among other things. How would you go about it? Do you have any good 
> texts in mind, especially GIS specific?

my comment derived from what I have seen in german universities.
For example georeferencing of raster pictures: why have all the students
work only with a single proprietary product to try out in practice
what they learned in theory (well, I've seen courses where the theory part
was kept to a minimum, say the users manual on how to georeference)

Why not instead have some students try product A, some product B etc.
and later report how they did in practice what they learned during
theory. Yes, I am aware this creates extra-work for the staff, but
I hope you get what I mean.

Unfortunately I do not have good texts at hand...

Best

	Jan

-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/



From ari.jolma at tkk.fi  Fri Aug 19 15:03:43 2005
From: ari.jolma at tkk.fi (Ari Jolma)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:03:43 +0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers
	and	the	academia
In-Reply-To: <20050819081400.GE6129@intevation.de>
References: <4302E978.7050301@tkk.fi> <20050818101150.GA31458@intevation.de>
	<43059015.3080104@tkk.fi> <20050819081400.GE6129@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <4305D8AF.5000505@tkk.fi>

Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:

>On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 10:53:57AM +0300, Ari Jolma wrote:
>  
>
>>Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Students learn to know that there are alternatives
>>>and how to evaluate them. A qualification I miss for many
>>>students.
>>>      
>>>
>
>Why not instead have some students try product A, some product B etc.
>and later report how they did in practice what they learned during
>theory. Yes, I am aware this creates extra-work for the staff, but
>I hope you get what I mean.
>
>  
>

Well, I try to teach the ADDIE (analysis, design, development, 
implementation, evaluation) and say that anybody who mentions 
Arc-something while she or he is in analysis or design phase, will get a 
long minus. But still, many students start the whole thing saying the 
"We take ArcGIS and...".

The same design can normally be used for FOSS, COTS, or other software. 
By evaluation of alternatives (not the E in ADDIE) I understand 
comparing these solutions (cost, support, requirements from the other 
systems, etc).

You had the example of georeferencing a raster image with different 
tools and then comparing the experiences. To me that sounds like 
something that you would do on "GIS usability" course. To do that in 
some basic GIS course sounds too laborous at least in a university.

Ari

-- 
Prof. Ari Jolma
Kartografia ja Geoinformatiikka / Cartography and Geoinformatics
Teknillinen Korkeakoulu / Helsinki University of Technology
POBox 1200, 02015 TKK, Finland
Email: ari.jolma at tkk.fi URL: http://www.tkk.fi/~jolma



From ari.jolma at tkk.fi  Fri Aug 19 15:38:38 2005
From: ari.jolma at tkk.fi (Ari Jolma)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:38:38 +0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers
	and	theacademia
In-Reply-To: <000801c5a3e8$2221d570$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
References: <000801c5a3e8$2221d570$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
Message-ID: <4305E0DE.6080001@tkk.fi>

michael gould wrote:

>This is FAR easier now that important libraries and components are available
>(foss), than was the case a decade ago. In that sense I don't see how foss
>develpers and academia could collaborate more...things are pretty open and
>fluid from what I can see.
>  
>

At least in the environmental problem solving  (EPS) scene, with which 
I'm somewhat familiar with, I see problems. Maybe things work well and 
nicely in small groups, as seems to be with gvSIG (by the way, from 
freegis.org: "The homepage is in spanish."...). But in general there are 
many communities, which participate in EPS, and unless the whole project 
can agree from the beginning the use GRASS or similar FOSS 
environment/framework, the solution in practise is usually COTS. May the 
solution is just "let's use open standards" but it also could be some 
winning edge FOSS has (together with good usability) because there is 
this connection to academia. Maybe the solution is to evangelise 
scientists to implement their new innovative methods as QGIS plugins, I 
don't know. Probably there is no one solution. I got into this thinking 
after visiting Geocomputation conference, where some people were 
lamenting that their tools are not being used much, and presented open 
sourcing as one solution. In one keynote Duane Marble asked if there 
were any environmental modellers in the audience or if people knew 
environmental modellers, I didn't see many hands.

By the way, I was just listening to Asit Biswas (from Third World Centre 
for Water Management) giving a guest lecture here at TKK, and he said 
that he knows nobody, who is researching the effect of ICT on water 
management in global sense. My feeling is that solutions and tools, 
which are based on closed commercial tools (GIS is just one but 
important), are not very flexible, innovative or open to participation 
(by public or by local scientists).

Ari

>Our students collaborate directly with the gvSIG foss project. In fact,
>instead of keeping them around after graduation, as a sort of temporary
>research associate (with uncertain future), I have been turning them loose
>to work for/with the government agency and contracted company which are
>producing gvSIG.
>
>
>Ciao,
>-----------
>Michael Gould
>Department of Information Systems (LSI)
>Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castell?n Spain
>E-mail: gould (at) lsi.uji.es
>http://www.mgould.com
>http://www.geoinfo.uji.es
> 
>
>-----Mensaje original-----
>De: freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de
>[mailto:freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de] En nombre de Jan-Oliver Wagner
>Enviado el: jueves, 18 de agosto de 2005 12:12
>Para: freegis-list at intevation.de
>Asunto: Re: [Freegis-list] On the links between FOSS developers and
>theacademia
>
>On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 10:38:32AM +0300, Ari Jolma wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm interested in the links between the GIS industry and academia. By 
>>"GIS industry" I mean also FOSS GIS, of which a growing part is outside 
>>academia. How could we strengthen the link between the academia and the 
>>developers of the free GI software?
>>    
>>
>
>I have some general remarks:
>
>- IMHO, a GIS methodology should be explained in general
>  and then tried in practice with at least two different
>  tools.
>  Students learn to know that there are alternatives
>  and how to evaluate them. A qualification I miss for many
>  students.
>  Hopefully at least one of the tried tools is a Free Software,
>  because students can actually look at the implementation
>  of a discussed algorithm - wow!
>
>- If ever something is implemented during studies, the result
>  should be Free Software. Even better is to start upon
>  a Free Software and invent something new rather then
>  invent the wheel again. Contributing to a existing project
>  improves a lot more skills than just geoinformatics. Good
>  for the students.
>
>Both, the proprietary and the Free Software GIS industry will
>be interested in such students.
>
>Best
>
>	Jan
>
>  
>


-- 
Prof. Ari Jolma
Kartografia ja Geoinformatiikka / Cartography and Geoinformatics
Teknillinen Korkeakoulu / Helsinki University of Technology
POBox 1200, 02015 TKK, Finland
Email: ari.jolma at tkk.fi URL: http://www.tkk.fi/~jolma



From cavallini at faunalia.it  Sat Aug 20 07:47:17 2005
From: cavallini at faunalia.it (Paolo Cavallini)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:47:17 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
References: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
Message-ID: <200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>

A pragmatic approach that may be useful:
1. draft an explicit model (or more) for open geodata licence, as an 
alternative to current situation; this may follow GPL, or the Creative 
Commons; care should be taken not to allow what NMA pecieve as theft of data 
from commercial companies
2. put together a few lines on why geodata should be free (examples from the 
USA, etc); several of you have already written good things about this
3. start circulating a petition on this; it worked for software patents, why 
not for geodata?
I'm available to help, if needed.
All the best.
pc

At 13:29, mercoled? 17 agosto 2005, michael gould has probably written:
...
-- 
Paolo Cavallini
cavallini at faunalia.it   www.faunalia.it   www.faunalia.com
Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953



From jo at frot.org  Sat Aug 20 08:28:21 2005
From: jo at frot.org (Jo Walsh)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:28:21 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>
References: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
	<200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>
Message-ID: <20050820062821.GM11918@vishnu.tridity.org>

On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 07:47:17AM +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> 1. draft an explicit model (or more) for open geodata licence, as an 
> alternative to current situation; this may follow GPL, or the Creative 
> Commons; care should be taken not to allow what NMA pecieve as theft of data 
> from commercial companies
> 2. put together a few lines on why geodata should be free (examples from the 
> USA, etc); several of you have already written good things about this
> 3. start circulating a petition on this; it worked for software patents, why 
> not for geodata?

http://okfn.org/geo/minifesto.php is the attempt i have made to do
this. There is a draft non-commercial use Creative Commons based license linked
there which was submitted to our NMA, the Ordnance Survey, and more or
less sank without trace. 

There is a signup system on the bottom on of the document, the idea is
you register your support for the statements it contains. Steve Coast
created a 'pledge' when i started putting it together, which includes
a pledge to donate ten quid to the good cause of making our own free
of copyright maps and tools to help others do it:
http://www.pledgebank.com/geodata

Asking for generalised data - 5/10m would not be unacceptable -
wouldn't impact too severely on the business model that the NMAs are
attempting to preserve. Meanwhile the press reports that our
e-government initiatives are being held back because of disputes
over intellectual property rights concerning the OS's holding and
distribution of other authorities' street and addressing data: 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,1550761,00.html

Canada seems the best bet for acquiring hard numbers on the economic
and innovative positive effect of actively opening up geodata access,
with active government funding of open source GIS projects such as uDig.
( http://udig.refractions.net/ , http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/ )  
I hear Canada is releasing a big, TIGER-style open access street and
addressing model soon if not already.


-jo





From jo at frot.org  Sat Aug 20 17:46:29 2005
From: jo at frot.org (Jo Walsh)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 08:46:29 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to State-collected Geospatial Data
Message-ID: <20050820154629.GQ11918@vishnu.tridity.org>

Very few world citizens enjoy open access to the information that
describes their surroundings; particularly the geospatial data
collected and brokered by their National Mapping Agencies, an
essential framework for understanding civic information of all kinds.

http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php is a set of statements about Open
Access to State-collected Geospatial Data. 

* All government-collected geodata should be open, 
  that is, available for free distribution 
  and re-use under a ShareAlike license.

* Online mapping projects creating freely reusable geodata 
  should offer a compatible open license.

* Common, standard formats for describing and exchanging data
  should be adopted.

* Ultimately, all state-collected information 
  should be freely available, 
  in a structured machine-readable format.

An open data policy has economic benefits in terms of reduced cost and
increased innovation; it facilitates e-government and citizen engagement.

Please read the manifesto and, if you agree with the statements it contains,
sign up to support it: http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php#signup


-jo
 
--
http://mappinghacks.com/



From M.Trevisani at arpat.toscana.it  Sun Aug 21 15:59:46 2005
From: M.Trevisani at arpat.toscana.it (Maurizio Trevisani)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:59:46 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to Geospatial Data
Message-ID: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>

Coul'd you help me?
Where can I find samples of licence, similar tu the ones available for
open source software (GPL, MPL, and so on), for geospatial data?
Is there a site similar to http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php
specifically about geodata?
Thanks,
Maurizio Trevisani

Jo Walsh wrote:

>Very few world citizens enjoy open access to the information that
>describes their surroundings; particularly the geospatial data
>collected and brokered by their National Mapping Agencies, an
>essential framework for understanding civic information of all kinds.
>
>* All government-collected geodata should be open,
>  that is, available for free distribution
>  and re-use under a ShareAlike license.
>
>* Online mapping projects creating freely reusable geodata
>  should offer a compatible open license.
>
>* Common, standard formats for describing and exchanging data
>  should be adopted.
>
>* Ultimately, all state-collected information
>  should be freely available,
>  in a structured machine-readable format.
>
>An open data policy has economic benefits in terms of reduced cost and
>increased innovation; it facilitates e-government and citizen engagement.
>
>



From M.Trevisani at arpat.toscana.it  Sun Aug 21 16:06:54 2005
From: M.Trevisani at arpat.toscana.it (Maurizio Trevisani)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:06:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Freegis-list] DWG to Georeferenced Tiff
Message-ID: <1413.83.176.23.254.1124633214.squirrel@83.176.23.254>

I'm looking for an open software to convert vector DWG files to raster
TIFF (or Jpeg) files, producing the world file (.TFW) needed to use such
files in a Gis.
I've to convert several hundred of DWG files, so I need a program I could
use in a batch file, or I could program (as Grass, and so on).
I even need to light on or off some layers of the DWG files before
converting them, possibly setting these controls in the program or in the
batch file.
Any help?

Thanks in advance,
Maurizio Trevisani



From strk at keybit.net  Sun Aug 21 23:02:51 2005
From: strk at keybit.net (strk)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:02:51 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to State-collected Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <20050820154629.GQ11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
References: <20050820154629.GQ11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <20050821210251.GA7427@keybit.net>

I've written an Italian translation of the manifesto.

I post it here in case other Italian people can review
it before putting it online. In particular italian-specific
informations about geodata economy or free license use
examples would be nice to have.

Thank you.

--strk;

On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 08:46:29AM -0700, Jo Walsh wrote:
> Very few world citizens enjoy open access to the information that
> describes their surroundings; particularly the geospatial data
> collected and brokered by their National Mapping Agencies, an
> essential framework for understanding civic information of all kinds.
> 
> http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php is a set of statements about Open
> Access to State-collected Geospatial Data. 
> 
> * All government-collected geodata should be open, 
>   that is, available for free distribution 
>   and re-use under a ShareAlike license.
> 
> * Online mapping projects creating freely reusable geodata 
>   should offer a compatible open license.
> 
> * Common, standard formats for describing and exchanging data
>   should be adopted.
> 
> * Ultimately, all state-collected information 
>   should be freely available, 
>   in a structured machine-readable format.
> 
> An open data policy has economic benefits in terms of reduced cost and
> increased innovation; it facilitates e-government and citizen engagement.
> 
> Please read the manifesto and, if you agree with the statements it contains,
> sign up to support it: http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php#signup
> 
> 
> -jo
>  
> --
> http://mappinghacks.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freegis-list mailing list
> Freegis-list at intevation.de
> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list
-------------- next part --------------

Accesso libero ai dati cartografici raccolti dallo Stato

Crediamo che i dati cartografici raccolti dallo stato debbano essere
liberamente disponibili per i cittadini. Firma in fondo alla pagina per
supportare questo manifesto.

Come Funzionarebbe

Tutti i dati geografici collezionati dai governi dovrebbero essere
aperti, cioe' liberamente distribuibili e ri-utilizzabili con una
licenza ShareAlike.

	I dati geografici sono un bene pubblico. Un accesso aperto
	ad essi, sotto una licenza 'Commons' (ShareAlike), e' il modo
	migliore per vederne realizzati i suoi pieni benefici da parte
	di industrie e cittadini. Allo stesso tempo questa politica,
	richiedendo agli utilizzatori di ridistribuire aggiornamenti e
	migliorie, porta ad una disponibilita' maggiore ed a una migliore
	qualita' dei dati, con costi minori.

	Progetti correlati includono il modello di <a
	href="http://www.okfn.org/geo/geodata_cc_license_draft.rtf">non-profit
	open geodata license</a> sviluppata da Urban Tapestries in
	collaborazione con Creative Commons UK.  La licenza e' stata
	sottoposta all' Agenzia Nazionale Inglese, la Ordnance Survey,
	come base per una collaborazione aperta.

I progetti di mappatura online che creano dati geografici liberamente
riutilizzabili dovrebbero offrire una licenza aperta compatibile.

	Il progetto OpenStreetmap offre la sua banca dati crescente
	sotto una licenza "Attribution-Sharealike", che consente ogni
	tipo di riuso dei dati fintanto i lavori derivati rimangano a
	loro volta di pubblico dominio.

Dovrebbero essere adottati formati standard per lo scambio e la
descrizione di dati geografici.

	L' Open Geospatial Consortium ha creato una famiglia di
	standard per lo scambio aperto di dati geografici su Internet,
	e i metadati standard del World Wide Web Consortium sono
	generalmente utilizzati.

In ultima analisi, tutte le informazioni raccolte dallo stato dovrebbero
essere disponibili in maniera aperta, in un formato strutturato e
leggibile dalle macchine.

In Che Modo Questo Aiuterebbe

Dati aperti vuol dire dati migliori e piu' economici.

	Quando piu' produttori di informazione hanno l'opportunita
	di contribuire all'accuratezza e all'aggiornamento dei dati,
	la qualita' migliora. Quando piu' organizzazioni hanno la
	possibilita'di offrire servizi di informazione spaziale
	competitivi, i prezzi scendono.

	Lo Stato Italiano paga grosse societa' di proprieta' dello Stato
	stesso o a partecipazione statale per produrre dati cartografici
	che vengono poi venduti nuovamente allo Stato con licenze e
	sublicenze; una falsa economia che esclude i cittadini ordinari e
	le organizzazioni no-profit impossibilitati a sostenere i prezzi
	monopolistici delle licenze.

I dati geografici aperti aiutano l'economia.

	Negli Stati Uniti, la politica nazionale mette tutte le
	informazioni geospaziali raccolte dal governo nel pubblico
	dominio, senza costo e senza restrizioni d'uso.  Questo abbatte
	i costi della ricerca e dello sviluppo, e l'innovazione da parte
	dell'industria e degli individui crea un'attivita' economica.

L'accesso libero ai dati geografici aiuta la democrazia e la
partecipazione dei cittadini.

	Il 75-80% delle informazioni generate dal governo ha una
	componente spaziale.  Perche' l'informazioni del settore pubblico
	sia efficace, essa deve avere la piu' ampia disponibilita'
	possibile. Le leggi europee sulla liberta' di informazione
	enfatizzano fortemente la disponibilita' di dati geografici.

	I dati geografici sono alla base di servizi sviluppati da
	gruppi di informazione civica no-profit, come "Write To Them"
	e "They Work For You". Sono indispensabili per i progetti di
	analisi delle informazioni pubbliche e per renderle maggiormente
	disponibili al pubblico interessato.


# persone hanno firmato in supporto a questa dichiarazione.

	Se condividi queste dichiarazioni, per favore aggiungi il
	tuo nome.  Stiamo raccogliendo firme di utilizzatori di dati
	spaziali e sviluppatori di software GIS da tutto il mondo per
	aiutare a dimostrare un'ampio supporto per le politiche di
	accesso libero ai dati geografici.

Nome: ____________________
Email: ___________________ non pubblicheremo l'email, ma
                           potremmo volerti contattare
Organizzazione: __________
Sito web: ________________
Nazione: _________________

Visita la lista dei firmatari

Per favore, aggiungi commenti e link nella pagina wiki sul "Manifesto
Per I Geodati Aperti".

Per informazioni di base e link, visita le pagine relative ai "Geodati
Aperti" sul wiki della "Open Knowledge Foundation".



From cavallini at faunalia.it  Sun Aug 21 23:05:34 2005
From: cavallini at faunalia.it (Paolo Cavallini)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:05:34 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
References: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
Message-ID: <200508212305.47787.cavallini@faunalia.it>

This might be of interest to you:
http://www.dpi.inpe.br/gilberto/papers/commons_giscience2004.pdf
Also see:
http://okfn.org/geo/minifesto.php 
If you do not already have it.
All the best.
pc

At 15:59, domenica 21 agosto 2005, Maurizio Trevisani has probably written:
> Coul'd you help me?
> Where can I find samples of licence, similar tu the ones available for
> open source software (GPL, MPL, and so on), for geospatial data?
> Is there a site similar to http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php
> specifically about geodata?
> Thanks,
> Maurizio Trevisani
>
> Jo Walsh wrote:
> >Very few world citizens enjoy open access to the information that
> >describes their surroundings; particularly the geospatial data
> >collected and brokered by their National Mapping Agencies, an
> >essential framework for understanding civic information of all kinds.
> >
> >* All government-collected geodata should be open,
> >  that is, available for free distribution
> >  and re-use under a ShareAlike license.
> >
> >* Online mapping projects creating freely reusable geodata
> >  should offer a compatible open license.
> >
> >* Common, standard formats for describing and exchanging data
> >  should be adopted.
> >
> >* Ultimately, all state-collected information
> >  should be freely available,
> >  in a structured machine-readable format.
> >
> >An open data policy has economic benefits in terms of reduced cost and
> >increased innovation; it facilitates e-government and citizen engagement.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freegis-list mailing list
> Freegis-list at intevation.de
> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list

-- 
Paolo Cavallini
cavallini at faunalia.it   www.faunalia.it   www.faunalia.com
Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953
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From cavallini at faunalia.it  Sun Aug 21 23:10:04 2005
From: cavallini at faunalia.it (Paolo Cavallini)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 23:10:04 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] DWG to Georeferenced Tiff
In-Reply-To: <1413.83.176.23.254.1124633214.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
References: <1413.83.176.23.254.1124633214.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
Message-ID: <200508212310.05340.cavallini@faunalia.it>

I believe GRASS compiled with (non-free) OpenDWG library should do the job.
However, please check if there isn't another version of the same data, as 
rarely large amounts of GIS data are produced directly as DWG, but rather 
they are converted from some (easier) format.
pc

At 16:06, domenica 21 agosto 2005, Maurizio Trevisani has probably written:
> I'm looking for an open software to convert vector DWG files to raster
> TIFF (or Jpeg) files, producing the world file (.TFW) needed to use such
> files in a Gis.
> I've to convert several hundred of DWG files, so I need a program I could
> use in a batch file, or I could program (as Grass, and so on).
> I even need to light on or off some layers of the DWG files before
> converting them, possibly setting these controls in the program or in the
> batch file.
> Any help?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Maurizio Trevisani
-- 
Paolo Cavallini
cavallini at faunalia.it   www.faunalia.it   www.faunalia.com
Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953
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From jo at frot.org  Mon Aug 22 00:32:32 2005
From: jo at frot.org (Jo Walsh)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:32:32 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <200508212305.47787.cavallini@faunalia.it>
References: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
	<200508212305.47787.cavallini@faunalia.it>
Message-ID: <20050821223232.GA3363@vishnu.tridity.org>

On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 11:05:34PM +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> This might be of interest to you:
> http://www.dpi.inpe.br/gilberto/papers/commons_giscience2004.pdf
> Also see:
> http://okfn.org/geo/minifesto.php 
[ http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php preferred URL for the final version ]

Daniel Faivre has done some good thinking about a GPL-equivalent
'Public Geodata License'
http://www.omsug.ca/dl/osgis2004/pgl_mapserver2004.pdf
http://www.omsug.ca/dl/osgis2004/licenses.pdfhttp://www.omsug.ca/dl/osgis2004/licenses.pdf 
I recall just missing a presentation about this in the Open Source GIS
track at libresoftwaremeeting 2003, can't find archives, *assuming*
that this was Daniel also.

While searching for references i ran across this interesting looking
paper on managing DRM in data distribution with the OGC standards:
http://www.urisa.org/Journal/Under_Review/joffe/geodata_access_while_managing.htm

Giles Lane worked on the compromise-oriented non-commercial use CC
derived license that was submitted to the Ordnance Survey:
http://lists.okfn.org/pipermail/geo-discuss/2005-April/000012.html

As Rufus noted, 'Non-commercial' is hard to define, especially on the web. 
Does selling keyword-based advertisement space to subsidise a
free-to-access web mapping service constitute commercial use?
Probably.


-jo



From jan at intevation.de  Mon Aug 22 08:38:32 2005
From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:38:32 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <20050820062821.GM11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
References: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
	<200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>
	<20050820062821.GM11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <20050822063832.GA10631@intevation.de>

On Fri, Aug 19, 2005 at 11:28:21PM -0700, Jo Walsh wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 07:47:17AM +0200, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> > 1. draft an explicit model (or more) for open geodata licence, as an 
> > alternative to current situation; this may follow GPL, or the Creative 
> > Commons; care should be taken not to allow what NMA pecieve as theft of data 
> > from commercial companies
> > 2. put together a few lines on why geodata should be free (examples from the 
> > USA, etc); several of you have already written good things about this
> > 3. start circulating a petition on this; it worked for software patents, why 
> > not for geodata?
> 
> http://okfn.org/geo/minifesto.php is the attempt i have made to do
> this. There is a draft non-commercial use Creative Commons based license linked
> there which was submitted to our NMA, the Ordnance Survey, and more or
> less sank without trace. 

note that a license for non-commercial use in conjunction with example
of the US-Model is a bad idea. The US-Model is successful because it is
not just 'free for non-commercial use' - they made the data public domain
which naturally inludes the commercial use.

Well, in Europe the status of 'public domain' could only be reached
through waiting 80 (IIRC) years. It can't be used as a 'license'.
Hence, indeed we must have a license for geodata.

Next, I believe that we have the chance only for a single license within
decades to get lobbied until implementation.
Though a free-for-non-commercial-use license might be easier and faster
to get a consensus on, it would block the implementation of a license
concept similar to the US and thus block all the economic potentials.

IMHO, it is not good anyway to use 'not-for-commercial-use' licenses
at all. This is because 'Commercial' is not defined.
For me, even most (soon all) universities are commercial entities; in
fact it is hard to name any organization that truely could use geodata
or software and act non-commerical.
Debatable, of course! But thats the actual threat: it is debatable. You
could find yourself at court because the owner might have
a different view on what you though was a non-commercial activity.

> Canada seems the best bet for acquiring hard numbers on the economic
> and innovative positive effect of actively opening up geodata access,
> with active government funding of open source GIS projects such as uDig.
> ( http://udig.refractions.net/ , http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/ )  
> I hear Canada is releasing a big, TIGER-style open access street and
> addressing model soon if not already.

I'd be interested if that one is licensed with 'non-commercial'
restrictions. Anyone knows?

Best

	Jan

-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/



From jan at intevation.de  Mon Aug 22 09:19:51 2005
From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:19:51 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <20050821223232.GA3363@vishnu.tridity.org>
References: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
	<200508212305.47787.cavallini@faunalia.it>
	<20050821223232.GA3363@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <20050822071951.GE10631@intevation.de>

On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 03:32:32PM -0700, Jo Walsh wrote:
> Daniel Faivre has done some good thinking about a GPL-equivalent
> 'Public Geodata License'
> http://www.omsug.ca/dl/osgis2004/pgl_mapserver2004.pdf
> http://www.omsug.ca/dl/osgis2004/licenses.pdfhttp://www.omsug.ca/dl/osgis2004/licenses.pdf 
> I recall just missing a presentation about this in the Open Source GIS
> track at libresoftwaremeeting 2003, can't find archives, *assuming*
> that this was Daniel also.

I can confirm this was indeed Daniel :-)

Best

	Jan
-- 
Jan-Oliver Wagner               http://intevation.de/~jan/
Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
Kolab Konsortium               http://kolab-konsortium.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/



From gould at lsi.uji.es  Sat Aug 20 10:09:50 2005
From: gould at lsi.uji.es (michael gould)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:09:50 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>
Message-ID: <003601c5a55e$8a35aed0$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>

Paolo et al.,

It is not for lack of ideas. See for example the nicely developed
Geo-creative commons paper here:

http://www.dpi.inpe.br/gilberto/papers/commons_giscience2004.pdf

The main problem is that you (we) are up against large burocracies, that are
not easily won over using logical or technical arguments :-)

This is why I believe that demos, easy and effective demos, are the best way
to get the message across. Many of these same agancies probably fought
against having websites, but then when it became so easy (and apparently
safe; we'll see what the growing spam and hacker wars create) to have a
website...they were left with no excuse.

cheers,

-----------
Michael Gould
Department of Information Systems (LSI)
Universitat Jaume I, 12071 Castell?n Spain
E-mail: gould (at) lsi.uji.es
http://www.mgould.com
http://www.geoinfo.uji.es
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de
[mailto:freegis-list-bounces at intevation.de] En nombre de Paolo Cavallini
Enviado el: s?bado, 20 de agosto de 2005 7:47
Para: freegis-list at intevation.de
Asunto: Re: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?

A pragmatic approach that may be useful:
1. draft an explicit model (or more) for open geodata licence, as an 
alternative to current situation; this may follow GPL, or the Creative 
Commons; care should be taken not to allow what NMA pecieve as theft of data

from commercial companies
2. put together a few lines on why geodata should be free (examples from the

USA, etc); several of you have already written good things about this
3. start circulating a petition on this; it worked for software patents, why

not for geodata?
I'm available to help, if needed.
All the best.
pc

At 13:29, mercoled? 17 agosto 2005, michael gould has probably written:
...
-- 
Paolo Cavallini
cavallini at faunalia.it   www.faunalia.it   www.faunalia.com
Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953

_______________________________________________
Freegis-list mailing list
Freegis-list at intevation.de
https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list




From jo at frot.org  Mon Aug 22 09:50:32 2005
From: jo at frot.org (Jo Walsh)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 00:50:32 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <20050822063832.GA10631@intevation.de>
References: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>
	<200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>
	<20050820062821.GM11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
	<20050822063832.GA10631@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20050822075032.GF3363@vishnu.tridity.org>

On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 08:38:32AM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> > http://okfn.org/geo/minifesto.php is the attempt i have made to do
> > this. There is a draft non-commercial use Creative Commons based license linked
> 
> note that a license for non-commercial use in conjunction with example
> of the US-Model is a bad idea. The US-Model is successful because it is
> not just 'free for non-commercial use' - they made the data public domain
> which naturally inludes the commercial use.

Noted. An argument i have seen often from the NMA lobby is, 'the US
model has not worked because commercial entities (NavTEQ, mapquest et al)
can augment and re-use state geodata to great profit without no obligation
to put enhancements into the public domain, thus the timeliness and accuracy
of state-collected geodata, especially in local government, suffers'.
 
A ShareAlike clause helps bypass the criticisms of the US model; data
is open to commercial re-use as long as enhancements are contributed
back to the 'public domain'. 

(Often quoted against the US model is Laila Aslesen, IP lawyer for Norway's NMA.
I heard anecdotally that Norway's emergency services can no longer
access the spatial data they used to for search-and-rescue purposes,
because the commercial entity responsible for collection, decided that
sales cost/benefit was no longer economically viable in remote areas.)
 
> Next, I believe that we have the chance only for a single license within
> decades to get lobbied until implementation.
> Though a free-for-non-commercial-use license might be easier and faster
> to get a consensus on, it would block the implementation of a license
> concept similar to the US and thus block all the economic potentials.

Currently, small businesses or local government agencies feel pressured 
to retain IP rights in geodata because 'everyone else is doing so, 
we'll lose out if we don't, and be squashed by the major players'. 

Again, a ShareAlike license for the distribution of state-collected
geodata would help defuse this situation; smaller organisations would
not lose by putting data into the public domain; larger organisations
would not unduly gain at public expense. 


-jo



From neteler at itc.it  Mon Aug 22 11:23:08 2005
From: neteler at itc.it (Markus Neteler)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:23:08 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GRASS GIS 6.0.1 released
Message-ID: <20050822092308.GB18058@thuille.itc.it>

Announcement

GRASS GIS 6.0.1 released 22 August 2005

A bugfix release of GRASS GIS has been published today.

What's new:
  * More than 140 fixes applied after 6.0.0.
  * A few MacOSX issues and other minor problems were
    fixed after 6.0.1RC1 and 6.0.1RC2.

Full Announcement:
   * http://grass.itc.it/announces/announce_grass601.html

Software download/CDROM:
   * http://grass.itc.it
   * http://grass.ibiblio.org


Thanks to all contributors!

Markus



From Lena.Pahl at web.de  Tue Aug 23 14:19:18 2005
From: Lena.Pahl at web.de (Lena Pahl)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:19:18 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] OGC-compliant requests in XML format
Message-ID: <283634869@web.de>



Hi everybody!

I want to create OGC-compliant requests in XML format for a WFS. Is there some automated way to create those requests?

Any help is very much appreciated!

Thanks a million,

Lena

______________________________________________________________
Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193



From mueller at lat-lon.de  Tue Aug 23 18:18:53 2005
From: mueller at lat-lon.de (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Markus_M=FCller?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:18:53 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Freegis-list] OGC-compliant requests in XML format
In-Reply-To: <283634869@web.de>
References: <283634869@web.de>
Message-ID: <58256.141.91.240.143.1124813933.squirrel@mail.lat-lon.de>

Hi Lena,

there is a number of free WFS clients available that can send WFS requests
to WFS server and create those request for you, e.g. deeJUMP
(http://deegree.sourceforge.net/src/demos.html#deejump) - this is an
extension of JUMP able to send WFS requests.
If you need plain XML example requests the deegree demo WFS includes some
of them (the WFS spec BTW also).

Is that what you are looking for?

Markus

>>>> Lena Pahl>>>>
>
>
> Hi everybody!
>
> I want to create OGC-compliant requests in XML format for a WFS. Is
> there some automated way to create those requests?
>
> Any help is very much appreciated!
>
> Thanks a million,
>
> Lena
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freegis-list mailing list
> Freegis-list at intevation.de
> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list


-- 
Dr. Markus M?ller
l a t / l o n  GmbH (Hamburg)
Gluckstr. 53a			22081 Hamburg, Germany
phone ++49 +177 2470742		fax ++49 +228 18496-29
http://www.lat-lon.de		http://www.deegree.org




From arnulf.christl at ccgis.de  Tue Aug 23 18:51:14 2005
From: arnulf.christl at ccgis.de (Arnulf Christl)
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:51:14 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] OGC-compliant requests in XML format
In-Reply-To: <283634869@web.de>
References: <283634869@web.de>
Message-ID: <430B5402.9060909@ccgis.de>

Lena Pahl wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> I want to create OGC-compliant requests in XML format for a WFS. Is there some automated way to create those requests?
> 
> Any help is very much appreciated!
> 
> Thanks a million,
> 
> Lena

Hi,
you can check out this demo:
http://www.mapbender.org/demoserver.html

Search for 5311 in "Suche Postleitzahlbereiche:"
check the GML box and click OK. Look at the URL of the returned web 
page, it contains the WFS getFeature request.

There are loads of application scenarios, a comprehensive set can be 
found here:
http://www.flo.rlp.de

It implements search functionality with WFS, highlighting and enables 
digitizing functionality.

Best,
Arnulf.



From steve at fractalus.com  Sat Aug 20 18:10:57 2005
From: steve at fractalus.com (SteveC)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:10:57 +0100
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [Openstreetmap] Open Access to State-collected
	Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <20050820154629.GQ11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
References: <20050820154629.GQ11918@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <20050820161057.GA23719@fractalus.com>


And sign the pledge

http://www.pledgebank.com/geodata

* @ 20/08/05 04:46:29 PM jo at frot.org wrote:
> Very few world citizens enjoy open access to the information that
> describes their surroundings; particularly the geospatial data
> collected and brokered by their National Mapping Agencies, an
> essential framework for understanding civic information of all kinds.
> 
> http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php is a set of statements about Open
> Access to State-collected Geospatial Data. 
> 
> * All government-collected geodata should be open, 
>   that is, available for free distribution 
>   and re-use under a ShareAlike license.
> 
> * Online mapping projects creating freely reusable geodata 
>   should offer a compatible open license.
> 
> * Common, standard formats for describing and exchanging data
>   should be adopted.
> 
> * Ultimately, all state-collected information 
>   should be freely available, 
>   in a structured machine-readable format.
> 
> An open data policy has economic benefits in terms of reduced cost and
> increased innovation; it facilitates e-government and citizen engagement.
> 
> Please read the manifesto and, if you agree with the statements it contains,
> sign up to support it: http://okfn.org/geo/manifesto.php#signup
> 
> 
> -jo
>  
> --
> http://mappinghacks.com/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Openstreetmap mailing list
> Openstreetmap at vr.ucl.ac.uk
> http://bat.vr.ucl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstreetmap
> 

have fun,

SteveC steve at fractalus.com http://www.fractalus.com/steve/



From Lena.Pahl at web.de  Wed Aug 24 09:40:23 2005
From: Lena.Pahl at web.de (Lena Pahl)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:40:23 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] OGC-compliant requests in XML format
Message-ID: <285341241@web.de>


Hello!
Well, that sounds a bit to big for my purposes. I'm looking for a tool that is able to create GetFeature and Transaction requests (in XML). 
I want to send those request to GeoServer WFS. I tried sending demo requests and it works. So that tool (or whatever...) doesn't necessarily need to "communicate" with the WFS but to generate ogc-comliant requests like this:

<wfs:GetFeature service="WFS" version="1.0.0" outputFormat="GML2" 
xmlns:topp="http://www.openplans.org/topp" 
xmlns:wfs="http://www.opengis.net/wfs" 
xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc" 
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" 
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs http://schemas.opengis.net/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-basic.xsd">
<wfs:Query typeName="topp:GISUSER.FLURSTUECKE_1">
<ogc:Filter>
<ogc:FeatureId fid="GISUSER.FLURSTUECKE_1.1"/>
</ogc:Filter>
</wfs:Query>
</wfs:GetFeature>


How do you generate this? Or is there no other way than plain "typing"?
Thanks for your help anyway!
Lena



mueller at lat-lon.de schrieb am 23.08.05 18:18:55:

Hi Lena,

there is a number of free WFS clients available that can send WFS requests
to WFS server and create those request for you, e.g. deeJUMP
(http://deegree.sourceforge.net/src/demos.html#deejump) - this is an
extension of JUMP able to send WFS requests.
If you need plain XML example requests the deegree demo WFS includes some
of them (the WFS spec BTW also).

Is that what you are looking for?

Markus

>>>> Lena Pahl>>>>
>
>
> Hi everybody!
>
> I want to create OGC-compliant requests in XML format for a WFS. Is
> there some automated way to create those requests?
>
> Any help is very much appreciated!
>
> Thanks a million,
>
> Lena
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
>
> _______________________________________________
> Freegis-list mailing list
> Freegis-list at intevation.de
> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list


-- 
Dr. Markus M?ller
l a t / l o n  GmbH (Hamburg)
Gluckstr. 53a			22081 Hamburg, Germany
phone ++49 +177 2470742		fax ++49 +228 18496-29
http://www.lat-lon.de		http://www.deegree.org




_________________________________________________________________________
Mit der Gruppen-SMS von WEB.DE FreeMail k?nnen Sie eine SMS an alle 
Freunde gleichzeitig schicken: http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021179





From mueller at lat-lon.de  Wed Aug 24 13:45:05 2005
From: mueller at lat-lon.de (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Markus_M=FCller?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:45:05 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Freegis-list] OGC-compliant requests in XML format
In-Reply-To: <285341241@web.de>
References: <285341241@web.de>
Message-ID: <56452.141.91.240.140.1124883905.squirrel@mail.lat-lon.de>

Hi Lena

hmm, easier than deeJUMP? ;-)

deeJUMP is pretty easy to install - you only need a Java SDK.

It includes a button that creates GetFeature request for arbitrary WFS
servers. You can then let the software create the XML representation for
you (by "create request").So you then have the choice of letting deeJUMP send the request - or
sending them by another way.

best regards

Markus

>>>> Lena Pahl>>>>
>
> Hello!
> Well, that sounds a bit to big for my purposes. I'm looking for a tool
> that is able to create GetFeature and Transaction requests (in XML).  I
> want to send those request to GeoServer WFS. I tried sending demo
> requests and it works. So that tool (or whatever...) doesn't
> necessarily need to "communicate" with the WFS but to generate
> ogc-comliant requests like this:
>
> <wfs:GetFeature service="WFS" version="1.0.0" outputFormat="GML2"
> xmlns:topp="http://www.openplans.org/topp"
> xmlns:wfs="http://www.opengis.net/wfs"
> xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc"
> xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
> http://schemas.opengis.net/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-basic.xsd"> <wfs:Query
> typeName="topp:GISUSER.FLURSTUECKE_1">
> <ogc:Filter>
> <ogc:FeatureId fid="GISUSER.FLURSTUECKE_1.1"/>
> </ogc:Filter>
> </wfs:Query>
> </wfs:GetFeature>
>
>
> How do you generate this? Or is there no other way than plain "typing"?
> Thanks for your help anyway!
> Lena
>
>
>
> mueller at lat-lon.de schrieb am 23.08.05 18:18:55:
>
> Hi Lena,
>
> there is a number of free WFS clients available that can send WFS
> requests to WFS server and create those request for you, e.g. deeJUMP
> (http://deegree.sourceforge.net/src/demos.html#deejump) - this is an
> extension of JUMP able to send WFS requests.
> If you need plain XML example requests the deegree demo WFS includes
> some of them (the WFS spec BTW also).
>
> Is that what you are looking for?
>
> Markus
>
>>>>> Lena Pahl>>>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everybody!
>>
>> I want to create OGC-compliant requests in XML format for a WFS. Is
>> there some automated way to create those requests?
>>
>> Any help is very much appreciated!
>>
>> Thanks a million,
>>
>> Lena
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
>> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freegis-list mailing list
>> Freegis-list at intevation.de
>> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list
>
>
> --
> Dr. Markus M?ller
> l a t / l o n  GmbH (Hamburg)
> Gluckstr. 53a			22081 Hamburg, Germany
> phone ++49 +177 2470742		fax ++49 +228 18496-29
> http://www.lat-lon.de		http://www.deegree.org
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Mit der Gruppen-SMS von WEB.DE FreeMail k?nnen Sie eine SMS an alle
> Freunde gleichzeitig schicken:
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>
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-- 
Dr. Markus M?ller
l a t / l o n  GmbH (Hamburg)
Gluckstr. 53a			22081 Hamburg, Germany
phone ++49 +177 2470742		fax ++49 +228 18496-29
http://www.lat-lon.de		http://www.deegree.org




From mueller at lat-lon.de  Wed Aug 24 14:00:23 2005
From: mueller at lat-lon.de (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Markus_M=FCller?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:00:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Freegis-list] OGC-compliant requests in XML format
In-Reply-To: <285341241@web.de>
References: <285341241@web.de>
Message-ID: <42427.141.91.240.140.1124884823.squirrel@mail.lat-lon.de>

Hi Lena

hmm, easier than deeJUMP? ;-)

deeJUMP is pretty easy to install - you only need a Java SDK.

It includes a button that creates GetFeature request for arbitrary WFS
servers. You can then let the software create the XML representation for
you (by "create request").So you then have the choice of letting deeJUMP
send therequest - or
sending them by another way.

best regards

Markus


>>>> Lena Pahl>>>>
>
> Hello!
> Well, that sounds a bit to big for my purposes. I'm looking for a tool
> that is able to create GetFeature and Transaction requests (in XML).  I
> want to send those request to GeoServer WFS. I tried sending demo
> requests and it works. So that tool (or whatever...) doesn't
> necessarily need to "communicate" with the WFS but to generate
> ogc-comliant requests like this:
>
> <wfs:GetFeature service="WFS" version="1.0.0" outputFormat="GML2"
> xmlns:topp="http://www.openplans.org/topp"
> xmlns:wfs="http://www.opengis.net/wfs"
> xmlns:ogc="http://www.opengis.net/ogc"
> xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.opengis.net/wfs
> http://schemas.opengis.net/wfs/1.0.0/WFS-basic.xsd"> <wfs:Query
> typeName="topp:GISUSER.FLURSTUECKE_1">
> <ogc:Filter>
> <ogc:FeatureId fid="GISUSER.FLURSTUECKE_1.1"/>
> </ogc:Filter>
> </wfs:Query>
> </wfs:GetFeature>
>
>
> How do you generate this? Or is there no other way than plain "typing"?
> Thanks for your help anyway!
> Lena
>
>
>
> mueller at lat-lon.de schrieb am 23.08.05 18:18:55:
>
> Hi Lena,
>
> there is a number of free WFS clients available that can send WFS
> requests to WFS server and create those request for you, e.g. deeJUMP
> (http://deegree.sourceforge.net/src/demos.html#deejump) - this is an
> extension of JUMP able to send WFS requests.
> If you need plain XML example requests the deegree demo WFS includes
> some of them (the WFS spec BTW also).
>
> Is that what you are looking for?
>
> Markus
>
>>>>> Lena Pahl>>>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everybody!
>>
>> I want to create OGC-compliant requests in XML format for a WFS. Is
>> there some automated way to create those requests?
>>
>> Any help is very much appreciated!
>>
>> Thanks a million,
>>
>> Lena
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS!
>> Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Freegis-list mailing list
>> Freegis-list at intevation.de
>> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list
>
>
> --
> Dr. Markus M?ller
> l a t / l o n  GmbH (Hamburg)
> Gluckstr. 53a			22081 Hamburg, Germany
> phone ++49 +177 2470742		fax ++49 +228 18496-29
> http://www.lat-lon.de		http://www.deegree.org
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Mit der Gruppen-SMS von WEB.DE FreeMail k?nnen Sie eine SMS an alle
> Freunde gleichzeitig schicken:
> http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021179


-- 
Dr. Markus M?ller
l a t / l o n  GmbH (Hamburg)
Gluckstr. 53a			22081 Hamburg, Germany
phone ++49 +177 2470742		fax ++49 +228 18496-29
http://www.lat-lon.de		http://www.deegree.org




From reed at interreality.org  Wed Aug 24 16:19:05 2005
From: reed at interreality.org (Reed Hedges)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:19:05 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
References: <1389.83.176.23.254.1124632786.squirrel@83.176.23.254>
Message-ID: <20050824141905.GA18034@interreality.org>


Simply applying the GPL or LGPL to geospatial data is valid. Consider the data 
to be the "source code" which is interpreted by computer to display, analyze, whatever.

(See <http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLOtherThanSoftware>)


Here is the FSF's list of licenses:
<http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html>



On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 03:59:46PM +0200, Maurizio Trevisani wrote:
> Coul'd you help me?
> Where can I find samples of licence, similar tu the ones available for
> open source software (GPL, MPL, and so on), for geospatial data?
> Is there a site similar to http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php
> specifically about geodata?
> Thanks,
> Maurizio Trevisani
> 



From pcreso at pcreso.com  Wed Aug 24 20:49:03 2005
From: pcreso at pcreso.com (Brent Wood)
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Open Access to Geospatial Data
In-Reply-To: <20050824141905.GA18034@interreality.org>
Message-ID: <20050824184903.39659.qmail@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Have a look at the Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) licence.

http://www.linz.govt.nz/docs/topography/topographicdata/topodtabase/licence_agreement_1.pdf

The data is pretty much freely redistributable.

Brent Wood


--- Reed Hedges <reed at interreality.org> wrote:

> 
> Simply applying the GPL or LGPL to geospatial data is valid. Consider the
> data 
> to be the "source code" which is interpreted by computer to display, analyze,
> whatever.
> 
> (See
> <http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLOtherThanSoftware>)
> 
> 
> Here is the FSF's list of licenses:
> <http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html>
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 03:59:46PM +0200, Maurizio Trevisani wrote:
> > Coul'd you help me?
> > Where can I find samples of licence, similar tu the ones available for
> > open source software (GPL, MPL, and so on), for geospatial data?
> > Is there a site similar to http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php
> > specifically about geodata?
> > Thanks,
> > Maurizio Trevisani
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freegis-list mailing list
> Freegis-list at intevation.de
> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list
> 



From arnulf.christl at ccgis.de  Thu Aug 25 00:27:54 2005
From: arnulf.christl at ccgis.de (Arnulf Christl)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:27:54 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Campaign for rejecting Inspire directive?
In-Reply-To: <20050822075032.GF3363@vishnu.tridity.org>
References: <000001c5a31e$e7fad910$6402a8c0@NOMADA1>	<200508200747.17858.cavallini@faunalia.it>	<20050820062821.GM11918@vishnu.tridity.org>	<20050822063832.GA10631@intevation.de>
	<20050822075032.GF3363@vishnu.tridity.org>
Message-ID: <430CF46A.1080604@ccgis.de>

Jo Walsh wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2005 at 08:38:32AM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote:
> 
>>>http://okfn.org/geo/minifesto.php is the attempt i have made to do
>>>this. There is a draft non-commercial use Creative Commons based license linked
>>
>>note that a license for non-commercial use in conjunction with example
>>of the US-Model is a bad idea. The US-Model is successful because it is
>>not just 'free for non-commercial use' - they made the data public domain
>>which naturally inludes the commercial use.
> 
> 
> Noted. An argument i have seen often from the NMA lobby is, 'the US
> model has not worked because commercial entities (NavTEQ, mapquest et al)
> can augment and re-use state geodata to great profit without no obligation
> to put enhancements into the public domain, thus the timeliness and accuracy
> of state-collected geodata, especially in local government, suffers'.
>  
> A ShareAlike clause helps bypass the criticisms of the US model; data
> is open to commercial re-use as long as enhancements are contributed
> back to the 'public domain'. 
> 
> (Often quoted against the US model is Laila Aslesen, IP lawyer for Norway's NMA.
> I heard anecdotally that Norway's emergency services can no longer
> access the spatial data they used to for search-and-rescue purposes,
> because the commercial entity responsible for collection, decided that
> sales cost/benefit was no longer economically viable in remote areas.)
>  
> 
>>Next, I believe that we have the chance only for a single license within
>>decades to get lobbied until implementation.
>>Though a free-for-non-commercial-use license might be easier and faster
>>to get a consensus on, it would block the implementation of a license
>>concept similar to the US and thus block all the economic potentials.
> 
> 
> Currently, small businesses or local government agencies feel pressured 
> to retain IP rights in geodata because 'everyone else is doing so, 
> we'll lose out if we don't, and be squashed by the major players'. 
> 
> Again, a ShareAlike license for the distribution of state-collected
> geodata would help defuse this situation; smaller organisations would
> not lose by putting data into the public domain; larger organisations
> would not unduly gain at public expense. 
> 
> 
> -jo

(ignore this if this has already been discussed in detail)

Why not stick to the GNU/FDL? Its simple and effective.

Try me on any definiton of "non-commercial use" or "commercial use" and 
i will find abundant arguments against them. None will not work with the 
emerging open distributed spatial server architectures.

Besides that, the public administration (as a system) has long ago 
decided to free all data and there is practically no more poccibility of 
turning back. The people *governing* public administrations are on the 
verge of understanding but just don't want to believe it yet.

Best, Arnulf.



From patricia.matsumoto at gmail.com  Thu Aug 25 07:17:24 2005
From: patricia.matsumoto at gmail.com (Patricia Megumi Matsumoto)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:17:24 -0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Getting_maps_of_S=E3o_Paulo?=
Message-ID: <c192648305082422174419dac1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

I'm a student in Brazil and I'm taking part in a project in which I have to 
implement an application for PDAs and I need to use GIS in order to do what 
I was asked to do. More specifically, I would like to implement an 
application in which I would be able to type some addresses and then, I 
would be able to see a map with some dots in the places which would 
correspond to the addresses I had typed before. (In the future, I intend to 
trace some routes in the map, in order to show to the user the best way to 
visit all the selected points). 
I've been looking for many (free) GISs and I've found many interesting 
projects. However, I couldn't find any site in which I could find maps 
(specifically of S?o Paulo) to use in my application. 
Would you have an idea where to find it? Would you have any suggestion 
concerning which API I should use for that?

Thank you very much =)
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From pcreso at pcreso.com  Fri Aug 26 08:58:22 2005
From: pcreso at pcreso.com (Brent Wood)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:58:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] cable network schema/OS GIS system?
In-Reply-To: <42E78986.60905@gmx-topmail.de>
Message-ID: <20050826065822.95381.qmail@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I've been asked to look into an Open Source solution for a GIS to support a
fibre & network /ISP company.

At this stage they are looking at a system to store fibre segment & node info,
along with the appropriate spatial & aspatial attributes to both record the
required attributes and relationship links.

While I'm comfortable that this is doable with PostGIS, I'm wondering if anyone
in the OS GIS community already has any schema's to suport this sort of system,
or has already implemented a simple telco type network GIS with OS GIS tools?


Thanks,

  Brent Wood



From pfcsergioliminiana at yahoo.es  Sat Aug 27 12:29:36 2005
From: pfcsergioliminiana at yahoo.es (Sergio Liminiana Bernat)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:29:36 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Coverage and GML 3.0
Message-ID: <20050827102936.37583.qmail@web25610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hello!!

I want to know if anyone has a example of coverage
with GML 3. I have the specification, but I prefer a
example... only for view the format. 

Thank you very much


		
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