From bh at udev.org  Tue Jun  1 18:05:38 2004
From: bh at udev.org (Henrion Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 18:05:38 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Opendtect.org: Strange Open Source Licence
Message-ID: <20040601160538.GA3845@debina.ctnet.pl>

What do you think of this:

http://www.opendtect.org/?q=WhatIsOpendTect%2FLicenseInfo

Is this really Open Source?

Seems strange...

-- 
Benjamin Henrion <bh at udev.org>
http://bh.udev.org
<<< Push the Parliament democracy against Commission-Council Terrorism >>>
<<<   Promoting Abuses of the Patent System is Juridical Terrorism     >>>
<<<                         http://swpat.ffii.org                      >>>



From warmerdam at pobox.com  Tue Jun  1 18:32:14 2004
From: warmerdam at pobox.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:32:14 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Opendtect.org: Strange Open Source Licence
In-Reply-To: <20040601160538.GA3845@debina.ctnet.pl>
References: <20040601160538.GA3845@debina.ctnet.pl>
Message-ID: <40BCAF8E.5000301@pobox.com>

Henrion Benjamin wrote:
> What do you think of this:
> 
> http://www.opendtect.org/?q=WhatIsOpendTect%2FLicenseInfo
> 
> Is this really Open Source?
> 
> Seems strange...

Benjamin,

No, this doesn't satisfy the Open Source Definition, nor is it free software.
I suppose it is "open source" though since the source is available, but not
in the formal complete sense.

Best regards,

-- 
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam at pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent



From ametts2 at mindspring.com  Wed Jun  2 00:53:41 2004
From: ametts2 at mindspring.com (Allan Metts)
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:53:41 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Need help converting GPS waypoint data
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040601184926.02761890@pop.mindspring.com>

I'm trying to overlay some GPS waypoints onto a city street map.  The GPS 
drive test data has somehow formed a mirror image (flipped in the east-west 
direction).  And it's shifted several miles due east.

All I have are cryptic GPS files like the excerpt you see below, and not 
much else.  Using C++ code, I'm reading in the $G lines, and interpreting 
the 4th and 5th fields in various ways.  I've tried Decimal Degrees, 
Degrees + Decimal Minutes (with the degrees being the most significant 
digits), and Degrees, Minutes, and Decimal Seconds. Different Map 
projections don't help much.

I convert to Decimal Degrees by dividing Minutes by 60 and Seconds by 3600.

I'm obviously landing in the right part of the world, but obviously 
something is quite wrong.  Any idea what could cause the mirror-image flip 
and eastward shift?

Thanks in advance,
Allan


$H,UNIT ID,none,1.110702tc,2,,3.03
$A,042604,162254,1,1,0,3,001,000,006,000,030,00000
$+i,042604,162256
$S,042604,162301,1
$s,042604,162301,1
$G,042604,162316,+3557.478,-08400.106,007.17
$G,042604,162317,+3557.477,-08400.107,009.62
$G,042604,162318,+3557.477,-08400.109,009.96
$G,042604,162319,+3557.476,-08400.111,009.48
$G,042604,162320,+3557.476,-08400.112,008.33
$G,042604,162321,+3557.476,-08400.113,006.29
$G,042604,162322,+3557.476,-08400.114,005.69
$G,042604,162323,+3557.476,-08400.116,008.50



From mrekola at acev.fi  Wed Jun  2 09:06:31 2004
From: mrekola at acev.fi (Mikael Rekola)
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:06:31 +0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] Need help converting GPS waypoint data 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:53:41 EDT."
	<6.1.0.6.2.20040601184926.02761890@pop.mindspring.com> 
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040601184926.02761890@pop.mindspring.com> 
Message-ID: <E1BVPpY-0005Nb-00@mail.acev.fi>

Allan Metts <ametts2 at mindspring.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to overlay some GPS waypoints onto a city street map.  The
> GPS drive test data has somehow formed a mirror image (flipped in the
> east-west direction).  And it's shifted several miles due east.

This data shows a slight resemblance to NMEA-format. At least the
coordinates look similar, so the the correct format would be degrees +
decimal minutes.

The most obvious explanation for the mirroring and shifting would be
that you calculated your longitude wrong. As all the longitudes you have
are negative while the latitudes are not, it's possible that you
applied the sign incorrectly. All your waypoints should be on the
western side of the 84°W longitude line, but if you forgot to apply the
sign to the minutes part of the coordinate, your data would be mirrored
and shifted to the eastern side.

> $G,042604,162316,+3557.478,-08400.106,007.17

So you propably calculated the first longitude this way:

longitude=-84+0.106/60

while you should have done it like this:

longitude=-(84+0.106/60)

If you got that wrong, your data would be mirrored, and you first
waypoint would be shifted 0.212 minutes or about 300m to east.

--
Mikael Rekola



From ametts2 at mindspring.com  Wed Jun  2 14:44:41 2004
From: ametts2 at mindspring.com (Allan Metts)
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:44:41 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: Need help converting GPS waypoint data 
In-Reply-To: <E1BVPpY-0005Nb-00@mail.acev.fi>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20040601184926.02761890@pop.mindspring.com>
	<E1BVPpY-0005Nb-00@mail.acev.fi>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040602084316.0ab01d28@pop.mindspring.com>

At 03:06 AM 6/2/2004, Mikael Rekola wrote:
>  All your waypoints should be on the
>western side of the 84?W longitude line, but if you forgot to apply the
>sign to the minutes part of the coordinate, your data would be mirrored
>and shifted to the eastern side.

Hi Mikael,

You nailed it!  This was precisely my problem.  Thanks for your help!

A-----



From s.brennan1 at verizon.net  Fri Jun  4 05:06:51 2004
From: s.brennan1 at verizon.net (Shane Brennan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:06:51 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Need help converting GPS waypoint data
In-Reply-To: <20040602100007.4A0CF13BA1@lists.intevation.de>
References: <20040602100007.4A0CF13BA1@lists.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <40BFE74B.5050606@verizon.net>

The joys of NMEA! I have some C++ code that parses the NMEA data from a 
Lowrance GPS/Sonar unit that's logged to hyperterminal. You can 
configure what NMEA information is output from the unit and in our case 
we used Latitude, Longitude and Depth so that rough bathymetric maps can 
be generated for our city's many small lakes very rapidly. We add in a 
water line with a known elevation as a nice breakline and then create 
TIN's using ESRI's 3D Analyst. Is there an open source alternative that 
writes to TIN or something similar?

Shane Brennan

> 
> Subject:
> Re: [Freegis-list] Need help converting GPS waypoint data
> From:
> Mikael Rekola <mrekola at acev.fi>
> Date:
> Wed, 02 Jun 2004 10:06:31 +0300
> To:
> Allan Metts <ametts2 at mindspring.com>, Freegis-list at intevation.de
> 
> 
> This data shows a slight resemblance to NMEA-format. At least the
> coordinates look similar, so the the correct format would be degrees +
> decimal minutes.
> 
> The most obvious explanation for the mirroring and shifting would be
> that you calculated your longitude wrong. As all the longitudes you have
> are negative while the latitudes are not, it's possible that you
> applied the sign incorrectly. All your waypoints should be on the
> western side of the 84?W longitude line, but if you forgot to apply the
> sign to the minutes part of the coordinate, your data would be mirrored
> and shifted to the eastern side.
> 
> 
>>$G,042604,162316,+3557.478,-08400.106,007.17
> 
> 
> So you propably calculated the first longitude this way:
> 
> longitude=-84+0.106/60
> 
> while you should have done it like this:
> 
> longitude=-(84+0.106/60)
> 
> If you got that wrong, your data would be mirrored, and you first
> waypoint would be shifted 0.212 minutes or about 300m to east.
> 
> --
> Mikael Rekola
> 
> 
> 
>------------------------------------
> 
> Subject:
> [Freegis-list] Need help converting GPS waypoint data
> From:
> Allan Metts <ametts2 at mindspring.com>
> Date:
> Tue, 01 Jun 2004 18:53:41 -0400
> To:
> freegis-list at intevation.de
> 
> To:
> freegis-list at intevation.de
> 
> 
> I'm trying to overlay some GPS waypoints onto a city street map.  The 
> GPS drive test data has somehow formed a mirror image (flipped in the 
> east-west direction).  And it's shifted several miles due east.
> 
> All I have are cryptic GPS files like the excerpt you see below, and not 
> much else.  Using C++ code, I'm reading in the $G lines, and 
> interpreting the 4th and 5th fields in various ways.  I've tried Decimal 
> Degrees, Degrees + Decimal Minutes (with the degrees being the most 
> significant digits), and Degrees, Minutes, and Decimal Seconds. 
> Different Map projections don't help much.
> 
> I convert to Decimal Degrees by dividing Minutes by 60 and Seconds by 3600.
> 
> I'm obviously landing in the right part of the world, but obviously 
> something is quite wrong.  Any idea what could cause the mirror-image 
> flip and eastward shift?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Allan
> 
> 
> $H,UNIT ID,none,1.110702tc,2,,3.03
> $A,042604,162254,1,1,0,3,001,000,006,000,030,00000
> $+i,042604,162256
> $S,042604,162301,1
> $s,042604,162301,1
> $G,042604,162316,+3557.478,-08400.106,007.17
> $G,042604,162317,+3557.477,-08400.107,009.62
> $G,042604,162318,+3557.477,-08400.109,009.96
> $G,042604,162319,+3557.476,-08400.111,009.48
> $G,042604,162320,+3557.476,-08400.112,008.33
> $G,042604,162321,+3557.476,-08400.113,006.29
> $G,042604,162322,+3557.476,-08400.114,005.69
> $G,042604,162323,+3557.476,-08400.116,008.50
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Freegis-list mailing list
> Freegis-list at intevation.de
> https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list



From sayan at ipp.zess.uni-siegen.de  Mon Jun  7 15:10:18 2004
From: sayan at ipp.zess.uni-siegen.de (Ayse Sayan)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 15:10:18 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
Message-ID: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>

Hello, 

I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing from
the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So does
anybody have an idea how I can start?

Thanks very much, 

ayse

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Ayse Hilal SAYAN

Center for Sensorsystems (ZESS)
Doctorate Programme in MultiSensorics
Paul Bonatzstr. 9-11

57068 Siegen

mobile phone   : +49 (0) 179 756 16 29

offfice phone     : +49 (0) 271 740 24 30

office fax           :+49 (0)271 740 40 18

mail              : sayan at ipp.zess.uni-siegen.de

URL                : http://www.zess.uni-siegen.de/ipp/people/sayan.htm
<http://www.zess.uni-siegen.de/ipp/people/sayan.htm> 
----------------------------------------------------
This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
to whom it is addressed , and may contain confidential  information. If
you are not the intended recipient of this message or you receive this
mail in error, you should refrain from making any use of the contents
and from opening any attachment. In that case, please notify the sender
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From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Mon Jun  7 15:17:22 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 15:17:22 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
Message-ID: <1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>

Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Ayse Sayan um 15:10:
> Hello, 
Hi!

> I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing
> from the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So
> does anybody have an idea how I can start?

I am sorry but I can not.
But this question seems to become a FAQ here and I am pretty sure that
there are some experts here on the list that could give some hints.

So why not start a small "Dummy's Guide To GPS GIS Processing"?

I would be willing to contribute as far as I can!

> Thanks very much,
> ayse
CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun  7 18:56:51 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:56:51 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>

On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 03:17:22PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Ayse Sayan um 15:10:

> > I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing
> > from the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So
> > does anybody have an idea how I can start?

Try to get an application that can get the date into your GNU/Linux system.
A search revealed that the GPSreceiver speacks an NMEA protocol.
www.freegis.org has five matches to that term:
http://freegis.org/search.en.html?search=NMEA
Many other probably also speak NMEA.

> I am sorry but I can not.
> But this question seems to become a FAQ here and I am pretty sure that
> there are some experts here on the list that could give some hints.

Haven't had that impression lately.
At least not when looking at the questions.
It seems that there are several different questions.

> So why not start a small "Dummy's Guide To GPS GIS Processing"?

Because most people are not Dummies and I do not want to treat them 
as being one. ;)

> I would be willing to contribute as far as I can!

First processing steps for receiving GPS data is:
 	a) Get the raw data somehow.
	b) (optional) correct it when using other references
	c) Convert it into the right format.
		If you have time information, you can create polygons (tracks)
		Otherwise you have points.

Now you have a regular GIS layer and processing this further
would be a GIS course subject.

There is a FreeGIS Tutorial section about using two GPS applications.
It is in German:
	http://www.freegis.org/freegis_tutorial/online/node132.html

Note that gpsdrive and KFlog are interesting application for GPS data. :)

	Bernhard
-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
Experts for complex webmapping! In business since 1999:
	http://intevation.net/services/gis/webmapping.en.html
Pay for FreeGIS if you like it: http://freegis.org/about-paying.en.html
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From dallas.masters at colorado.edu  Mon Jun  7 19:21:00 2004
From: dallas.masters at colorado.edu (Dallas Masters)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:21:00 -0600
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <40C4A3FC.8000906@colorado.edu>

Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 03:17:22PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> 
>>Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Ayse Sayan um 15:10:
> 
> 
>>>I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing
>>>from the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So
>>>does anybody have an idea how I can start?
> 
> 
> Try to get an application that can get the date into your GNU/Linux system.
> A search revealed that the GPSreceiver speacks an NMEA protocol.
> www.freegis.org has five matches to that term:
> http://freegis.org/search.en.html?search=NMEA
> Many other probably also speak NMEA.

If you are really talking about "raw" data, you can try the teqc program 
from UNAVCO (http://www.unavco.org/facility/software/teqc/teqc.html). 
It will read data from many GPS receivers and output RINEX (the GPS 
standard data format) or, in some cases, point position solutions.  It 
may be overkill--it depends on your application.  Good luck.

Dallas
-- 

Dallas Masters
Aerospace Engineering Sciences
CB 431 / CCAR
University of Colorado
Boulder, CO 80309-0431
(303) 492-4075
http://ccar.colorado.edu/~mastersd
-------------------------------------
I put instant coffee in a microwave and almost went back in time.
		-- Steven Wright



From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Mon Jun  7 20:00:51 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:00:51 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>

Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 18:56:
> On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 03:17:22PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> > Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Ayse Sayan um 15:10:
> > > I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing
> > > from the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So
> > > does anybody have an idea how I can start?
> Try to get an application that can get the date into your GNU/Linux system.
> A search revealed that the GPSreceiver speacks an NMEA protocol.
> www.freegis.org has five matches to that term:
> http://freegis.org/search.en.html?search=NMEA
> Many other probably also speak NMEA.

Not only probably - it is uncommon for most GPS receivers not to speak
at least some sort of NMEA, gpsbabel might also be of help for the ones
that don't.

> > I am sorry but I can not.
> > But this question seems to become a FAQ here and I am pretty sure that
> > there are some experts here on the list that could give some hints.
> Haven't had that impression lately.
> At least not when looking at the questions.
> It seems that there are several different questions.

Hmm... at least I recognised at least three questions that were centered
around the idea of postprocessing GPS data - for which reason ever.

> > So why not start a small "Dummy's Guide To GPS GIS Processing"?
> Because most people are not Dummies and I do not want to treat them 
> as being one. ;)

Argl... noone wanted to call them such.
But it is a common word nowadays to call the "getting started for
newbies" guides "dummie's guides". It was just meant as a humorous
expression and I really hope that I was not misunderstood.

> > I would be willing to contribute as far as I can!
> First processing steps for receiving GPS data is:
>  	a) Get the raw data somehow.
> 	b) (optional) correct it when using other references
> 	c) Convert it into the right format.
> 		If you have time information, you can create polygons (tracks)
> 		Otherwise you have points.

Concerning the polygons I searched for some solution to create those
from GPS data.
In most cases you will have GPS tracks that could be converted to
polygons - at least in theory. The trick is the "how-to" which I have
not yet found.
Interestingly for example GRASS has a digitizer option for some misc
graphics tablets but AFAIK no GPS data import. And I was also not able
to find any tool to convert GPS track data of any form into something
that some package like GRASS would be able to postprocess.

> Now you have a regular GIS layer and processing this further
> would be a GIS course subject.
> 
> There is a FreeGIS Tutorial section about using two GPS applications.
> It is in German:
> 	http://www.freegis.org/freegis_tutorial/online/node132.html

OK, I'll have a look at that!

> Note that gpsdrive and KFlog are interesting application for GPS data. :)

Sure.
But none of them allows to work with the collected data...

> 	Bernhard
CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun  7 20:11:04 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:11:04 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <40C4A3FC.8000906@colorado.edu>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<40C4A3FC.8000906@colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <20040607181104.GA24517@intevation.de>

On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 11:21:00AM -0600, Dallas Masters wrote:
> Bernhard Reiter wrote:

> >Try to get an application that can get the date into your GNU/Linux system.
> >A search revealed that the GPSreceiver speacks an NMEA protocol.
> >www.freegis.org has five matches to that term:
> >http://freegis.org/search.en.html?search=NMEA
> >Many other probably also speak NMEA.
> 
> If you are really talking about "raw" data, you can try the teqc program 
> from UNAVCO (http://www.unavco.org/facility/software/teqc/teqc.html). 
> It will read data from many GPS receivers and output RINEX (the GPS 
> standard data format) or, in some cases, point position solutions.  It 
> may be overkill--it depends on your application.  Good luck.

Unfortnately it is proprietary software, not having all the four freedoms:
	http://www.unavco.org/facility/software/teqc/faqs.html
	Question 2: Where do I find the teqc source code? Or executables?
	Answer: 
	The UNAVCO Facility does not make the teqc source code available,
	except in special circumstances usually requiring a non-disclosure
	agreement. 

	
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From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun  7 20:36:34 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:36:34 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>

On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:00:51PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 18:56:

> > > I am sorry but I can not.
> > > But this question seems to become a FAQ here and I am pretty sure that
> > > there are some experts here on the list that could give some hints.
> > Haven't had that impression lately.
> > At least not when looking at the questions.
> > It seems that there are several different questions.
> 
> Hmm... at least I recognised at least three questions that were centered
> around the idea of postprocessing GPS data - for which reason ever.

Okay, so we have got a) from below and part of c) already done.

> > > So why not start a small "Dummy's Guide To GPS GIS Processing"?
> > Because most people are not Dummies and I do not want to treat them 
> > as being one. ;)
> 
> Argl... noone wanted to call them such.
> But it is a common word nowadays to call the "getting started for
> newbies" guides "dummie's guides". It was just meant as a humorous
> expression and I really hope that I was not misunderstood.

No, it wasn't as you can see by my simley.
I always frown on those books, because of that strange titles.
More generally I encourage people to have more self confidence
and buy books that do not treat them as dummies, even if it is only
in the title.

> > > I would be willing to contribute as far as I can!
> > First processing steps for receiving GPS data is:
> >  	a) Get the raw data somehow.
> > 	b) (optional) correct it when using other references
> > 	c) Convert it into the right format.
> > 		If you have time information, you can create polygons (tracks)
> > 		Otherwise you have points.
> 
> Concerning the polygons I searched for some solution to create those
> from GPS data.
> In most cases you will have GPS tracks that could be converted to
> polygons - at least in theory. The trick is the "how-to" which I have
> not yet found.

Ah, now that question is a lot better, 
because it goes more to the point.
It seems that somebody should make a shapefile backend for gpsbabel
or OGR to convert some of the GPS formats in GIS formats.
Usually the textfiles are so simple that for real purposes
someone would write a small import script, e.g. using pyshapelib.

> Interestingly for example GRASS has a digitizer option for some misc
> graphics tablets but AFAIK no GPS data import. And I was also not able
> to find any tool to convert GPS track data of any form into something
> that some package like GRASS would be able to postprocess.

There once was s.in.gps, but I did not look up what happend to it.

> > Now you have a regular GIS layer and processing this further
> > would be a GIS course subject.
> > 
> > There is a FreeGIS Tutorial section about using two GPS applications.
> > It is in German:
> > 	http://www.freegis.org/freegis_tutorial/online/node132.html
> 
> OK, I'll have a look at that!

It does not contain this example, but your are right in that it should.
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From cavallini at faunalia.it  Tue Jun  8 07:49:16 2004
From: cavallini at faunalia.it (Paolo Cavallini)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 07:49:16 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <200406080749.33350.cavallini@faunalia.it>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We are busy rewriting s.in.garmin as v.in.garmin (hopefully moving to 
v.in.gps). Thanks to Hamish + Radim + Markus for advice and code.
Now it works, but further work is needed to:
- -pass the attributes (date, time, label) to the GRASS vector file
- -implement methods for reading also non-garmin gps.
But we have very little time and skill, so if anybody is willing to help, that 
would be good.
All the best.
pc

At 20:36, luned? 7 giugno 2004, Bernhard Reiter has probably written:
> > Interestingly for example GRASS has a digitizer option for some misc
> > graphics tablets but AFAIK no GPS data import. And I was also not able
> > to find any tool to convert GPS track data of any form into something
> > that some package like GRASS would be able to postprocess.
>
> There once was s.in.gps, but I did not look up what happend to it.
- -- 
Paolo Cavallini
cavallini at faunalia.it            www.faunalia.it
Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953
GPG key @: www.faunalia.it/Public_key_Paolo.asc
Only free software: www.gnu.org / www.linux.org
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ZorQRbLRI0KkzPHmtbOO5+E=
=OaND
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From bernhard at intevation.de  Tue Jun  8 12:29:15 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:29:15 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>

On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:36:34PM +0200, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:00:51PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> > Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 18:56:

> > Concerning the polygons I searched for some solution to create those
> > from GPS data.
> > In most cases you will have GPS tracks that could be converted to
> > polygons - at least in theory. The trick is the "how-to" which I have
> > not yet found.
> 
> Ah, now that question is a lot better, 
> because it goes more to the point.
> It seems that somebody should make a shapefile backend for gpsbabel
> or OGR to convert some of the GPS formats in GIS formats.
> Usually the textfiles are so simple that for real purposes
> someone would write a small import script, e.g. using pyshapelib.
> 
> > Interestingly for example GRASS has a digitizer option for some misc
> > graphics tablets but AFAIK no GPS data import. And I was also not able
> > to find any tool to convert GPS track data of any form into something
> > that some package like GRASS would be able to postprocess.
> 
> There once was s.in.gps, but I did not look up what happend to it.

You could try v.in.garmin.sh for GRASS 5.3.
Check: http://grass.itc.it/gdp/html_grass5/html/v.in.garmin.sh.html

Also Hamish seems to have development a real-time tracking:
http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grassuser/2003-November/010780.html
(Further questions on that should better go to the GRASS lists. :) )

On my wishlist would be a plugin for Thuban to operate gpsbabel.

Bernhard

--
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
Experts for complex webmapping! In business since 1999:
	http://intevation.net/services/gis/webmapping.en.html
Pay for FreeGIS if you like it: http://freegis.org/about-paying.en.html

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From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Tue Jun  8 12:57:34 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:57:34 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
	<20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>

Am Di, den 08.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 12:29:
> On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:36:34PM +0200, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:00:51PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> > > Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 18:56:
[...]
> > > Interestingly for example GRASS has a digitizer option for some misc
> > > graphics tablets but AFAIK no GPS data import. And I was also not able
> > > to find any tool to convert GPS track data of any form into something
> > > that some package like GRASS would be able to postprocess.
> > There once was s.in.gps, but I did not look up what happend to it.
> 
> You could try v.in.garmin.sh for GRASS 5.3.
> Check: http://grass.itc.it/gdp/html_grass5/html/v.in.garmin.sh.html

Ah, cool, I'll try to check that out ASAIT (as soon as I have time :)

> Also Hamish seems to have development a real-time tracking:
> http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grassuser/2003-November/010780.html
> (Further questions on that should better go to the GRASS lists. :) )

:)

> On my wishlist would be a plugin for Thuban to operate gpsbabel.

Oh yes, that would be perfect!
I am definitely a newbie to GIS processing and I have already stated my
point of interest: Generate maps from GPS data. How this is deon is in
general quite open. Thuban seems to me very interesting sind it can
handle annotations what GRASS IMHO can not.
If there would be a way to generate shape files for Thuban from GPS data
that could be edited (split, merged and annotated) within Thuban, then
Thuban would be the application of choice for my work!

Sadly I am no Python programmer at all so your Python shapelib extension
is no use for me. But the GPS-Babel approach seems promising!

If I understand you correctly if gpsbabel would have an output module
for shapefiles, which could itself be implemented by using shapelib,
then those shapes could be imported and managed/edited by Thuban?

> Bernhard
CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From agoncalves at lnec.pt  Tue Jun  8 13:15:06 2004
From: agoncalves at lnec.pt (António Gonçalves)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 12:15:06 +0100
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
	<20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
	<1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20040608121227.01d54008@maildrop.lnec.pt>

I am also a newbie to GIS processing, so sorry to ask.. but I need to ask:
What about generate GML from GPS data?

Thanks in advance for your comments,
Ant?nio


At 08/06/2004   11:57, you wrote:
>Am Di, den 08.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 12:29:
> > On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:36:34PM +0200, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:00:51PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> > > > Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 18:56:
>[...]
> > > > Interestingly for example GRASS has a digitizer option for some misc
> > > > graphics tablets but AFAIK no GPS data import. And I was also not able
> > > > to find any tool to convert GPS track data of any form into something
> > > > that some package like GRASS would be able to postprocess.
> > > There once was s.in.gps, but I did not look up what happend to it.
> >
> > You could try v.in.garmin.sh for GRASS 5.3.
> > Check: http://grass.itc.it/gdp/html_grass5/html/v.in.garmin.sh.html
>
>Ah, cool, I'll try to check that out ASAIT (as soon as I have time :)
>
> > Also Hamish seems to have development a real-time tracking:
> > http://grass.itc.it/pipermail/grassuser/2003-November/010780.html
> > (Further questions on that should better go to the GRASS lists. :) )
>
>:)
>
> > On my wishlist would be a plugin for Thuban to operate gpsbabel.
>
>Oh yes, that would be perfect!
>I am definitely a newbie to GIS processing and I have already stated my
>point of interest: Generate maps from GPS data. How this is deon is in
>general quite open. Thuban seems to me very interesting sind it can
>handle annotations what GRASS IMHO can not.
>If there would be a way to generate shape files for Thuban from GPS data
>that could be edited (split, merged and annotated) within Thuban, then
>Thuban would be the application of choice for my work!
>
>Sadly I am no Python programmer at all so your Python shapelib extension
>is no use for me. But the GPS-Babel approach seems promising!
>
>If I understand you correctly if gpsbabel would have an output module
>for shapefiles, which could itself be implemented by using shapelib,
>then those shapes could be imported and managed/edited by Thuban?
>
> > Bernhard
>CU
>   nils faerber
>
>--
>kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
>Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
>D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
>--
>
>_______________________________________________
>Freegis-list mailing list
>Freegis-list at intevation.de
>https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list
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From napo at itc.it  Tue Jun  8 14:04:46 2004
From: napo at itc.it (Maurizio Napolitano)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:04:46 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Another GIS live CD
Message-ID: <40C5AB5E.9050805@itc.it>

http://www.geomorphix.org



From bernhard at intevation.de  Tue Jun  8 14:15:54 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:15:54 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GML from GPS
In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20040608121227.01d54008@maildrop.lnec.pt>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
	<20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
	<1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
	<6.1.1.1.2.20040608121227.01d54008@maildrop.lnec.pt>
Message-ID: <20040608121554.GA28210@intevation.de>

On Tue, Jun 08, 2004 at 12:15:06PM +0100, Ant?nio Gon?alves wrote:
>    I am also a newbie to GIS processing, so sorry to ask.. but I need to
>    ask:
>    What about generate GML from GPS data?

A good idea in principle,
but many GIS cannot deal nicely with GML yet.
Thus a more pragmatic route is to convert it into something
easier to handle and more common.

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From bernhard at intevation.de  Tue Jun  8 14:29:58 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:29:58 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
	<20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
	<1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040608122958.GB28210@intevation.de>

On Tue, Jun 08, 2004 at 12:57:34PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> Am Di, den 08.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 12:29:
> > On Mon, Jun 07, 2004 at 08:36:34PM +0200, Bernhard Reiter wrote:

> > On my wishlist would be a plugin for Thuban to operate gpsbabel.
> 
> Oh yes, that would be perfect!
> I am definitely a newbie to GIS processing and I have already stated my
> point of interest: Generate maps from GPS data. How this is deon is in
> general quite open. Thuban seems to me very interesting sind it can
> handle annotations what GRASS IMHO can not.

Both Thuban and GRASS can handle attributes.

> If there would be a way to generate shape files for Thuban from GPS data
> that could be edited (split, merged and annotated) within Thuban, then
> Thuban would be the application of choice for my work!

When you have shapefiles, you can also use many other packages.
I will answer the more involved Thuban questions on the thuban-devel list
(and send you a copy). 

> Sadly I am no Python programmer at all so your Python shapelib extension
> is no use for me. But the GPS-Babel approach seems promising!
> 
> If I understand you correctly if gpsbabel would have an output module
> for shapefiles, which could itself be implemented by using shapelib,
> then those shapes could be imported and managed/edited by Thuban?

Thuban currently cannot do the more involved GIS operations like
merging, editing and writing out shapefiles. There are some experimental
extensions and having one using gpsbabel to create a shapefile looks
like a short hack. That would enable someone to produce maps.

	Bernhard
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From grass at troja.net  Tue Jun  8 14:48:58 2004
From: grass at troja.net (Jens Oberender)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:48:58 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040608122958.GB28210@intevation.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
	<20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
	<1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
	<20040608122958.GB28210@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20040608144858.469a8326@frobenius.suse.de>

Hi

> > If there would be a way to generate shape files for Thuban from GPS data
> > that could be edited (split, merged and annotated) within Thuban, then
> > Thuban would be the application of choice for my work!
> 
> When you have shapefiles, you can also use many other packages.
> I will answer the more involved Thuban questions on the thuban-devel list
> (and send you a copy). 
> 
> > Sadly I am no Python programmer at all so your Python shapelib extension
> > is no use for me. But the GPS-Babel approach seems promising!
> > 
> > If I understand you correctly if gpsbabel would have an output module
> > for shapefiles, which could itself be implemented by using shapelib,
> > then those shapes could be imported and managed/edited by Thuban?
> 
> Thuban currently cannot do the more involved GIS operations like
> merging, editing and writing out shapefiles. There are some experimental
> extensions and having one using gpsbabel to create a shapefile looks
> like a short hack. That would enable someone to produce maps.

QGIS has a plugin and also an external program to convert GPS data to
shapefiles.
It understands GPX and LOC formats which are outputformats of gpsbabel or
plain TXT files.
I didn't use the plugin yet (as I don't have a GPS), but if you have
questions come to #QGIS on irc.freenode.net.

-- 
Ciao
	Jens Oberender
------------------------------------
Die Liebe ist ein seltsam Ding.



From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Tue Jun  8 14:55:42 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:55:42 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040608144858.469a8326@frobenius.suse.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
	<1086614242.1289.107.camel@localhost>
	<20040607165651.GB22529@intevation.de>
	<1086631251.1289.299.camel@localhost>
	<20040607183634.GB24517@intevation.de>
	<20040608102915.GA27045@intevation.de>
	<1086692253.1286.323.camel@localhost>
	<20040608122958.GB28210@intevation.de>
	<20040608144858.469a8326@frobenius.suse.de>
Message-ID: <1086699342.2807.346.camel@localhost>

Am Di, den 08.06.2004 schrieb Jens Oberender um 14:48:
> Hi
Hi!

> > > If there would be a way to generate shape files for Thuban from GPS data
> > > that could be edited (split, merged and annotated) within Thuban, then
> > > Thuban would be the application of choice for my work!
> > When you have shapefiles, you can also use many other packages.
> > I will answer the more involved Thuban questions on the thuban-devel list
> > (and send you a copy). 
> > 
> > > Sadly I am no Python programmer at all so your Python shapelib extension
> > > is no use for me. But the GPS-Babel approach seems promising!
> > > 
> > > If I understand you correctly if gpsbabel would have an output module
> > > for shapefiles, which could itself be implemented by using shapelib,
> > > then those shapes could be imported and managed/edited by Thuban?
> > 
> > Thuban currently cannot do the more involved GIS operations like
> > merging, editing and writing out shapefiles. There are some experimental
> > extensions and having one using gpsbabel to create a shapefile looks
> > like a short hack. That would enable someone to produce maps.

Ah, too bad.

> QGIS has a plugin and also an external program to convert GPS data to
> shapefiles.
> It understands GPX and LOC formats which are outputformats of gpsbabel or
> plain TXT files.
> I didn't use the plugin yet (as I don't have a GPS), but if you have
> questions come to #QGIS on irc.freenode.net.

Hmm, that *does* sound promising!
Doing "apt-get install qgis" right now ;) I just love Debian!

Thanks for the hint!

I'll try to report my findings later on...

CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From sxpert at esitcom.org  Tue Jun  8 15:06:37 2004
From: sxpert at esitcom.org (Amaury Jacquot)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 15:06:37 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DC@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
Message-ID: <40C5B9DD.1070006@esitcom.org>

Ayse Sayan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing from 
> the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So does 
> anybody have an idea how I can start?
> 
> Thanks very much,
> 
> ayse

As soon as I get around to it, you'll be able to log the data with the 
ngpsd daemon.

http://www.navsys.org



From napo at itc.it  Wed Jun  9 10:07:45 2004
From: napo at itc.it (Maurizio Napolitano)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 10:07:45 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] PEAR::Image_GIS - a php library to convert E00 to SVG
Message-ID: <40C6C551.4020802@itc.it>


 From freshmeat:

PEAR::Image_GIS provides a parser for the most common format for 
geographical data, Arcinfo/E00, as well as renderers to produce images 
using GD or Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG).

http://www.sebastian-bergmann.de/en/image_gis.php



From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Wed Jun  9 18:32:56 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:32:56 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS/NMEA data processing
Message-ID: <1086798776.2807.401.camel@localhost>

Hi all!
After the quite lengthy but very informative thread about GPS/NMEA GIS
data processing I thought I should share my findings with you. It is not
much but at least something.

For now it seems that GRASS is no option for me. I want to import
GPS/NMEA data into some GIS application to finally create maps from it.
GRASS is too complex for me.
I had a look at QGIS and Thuban now.
QGIS and Thuban do even look quite similar and offer similar
functionality - still not vector editing, i.e. you cannot modify the
shapes, but you can add annotations and export simple maps from imported
shapes. QGIS add the functionality of plugins, one of them a GPS import
plugin.
Though this plugin did not work for me it pushed me into the right
direction of looking for a filter to change GPS/NMEA tracks into shapes.
After some research I found a small program called "gpstr2shp.c" which
converts GPS track data into shape files. This track data is not NMEA
but a rather simple format. I am now writing an additional filter to
convert NMEA into track data which can then converted into shapes. At
least for my test-data it works ;)
I will publish a link when I have something more stable (in a few days).
Using the above mentioned filters I was able to import the resulting
shape-files into Thuban - quite a success!

The feature I would need most now would be vector editing in either
Thuban or QGIS to correct the imported shapes - some points are rather
random (when the GPS lost the link) and I would like to split and/or
merge tracks ... but that's for the future ;)

Anyway, many thanks for everyone who responded!
More to come later...

CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From sayan at ipp.zess.uni-siegen.de  Mon Jun  7 14:48:56 2004
From: sayan at ipp.zess.uni-siegen.de (Ayse Sayan)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:48:56 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
Message-ID: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DA@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>

Hello, 

I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing from
the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So does
anybody have an idea how I can start?

Thanks very much, 

ayse

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Ayse Hilal SAYAN

Center for Sensorsystems (ZESS)
Doctorate Programme in MultiSensorics
Paul Bonatzstr. 9-11

57068 Siegen

mobile phone   : +49 (0) 179 756 16 29

offfice phone     : +49 (0) 271 740 24 30

office fax           :+49 (0)271 740 40 18

mail              : sayan at ipp.zess.uni-siegen.de

----------------------------------------------------
This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
to whom it is addressed , and may contain confidential  information. If
you are not the intended recipient of this message or you receive this
mail in error, you should refrain from making any use of the contents
and from opening any attachment. In that case, please notify the sender
immediately and return the message to the sender, then, delete and
destroy all copies. This e-mail message, could not be copied, published
or sold for any reason. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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From Silke.Reimer at intevation.de  Thu Jun 10 14:56:13 2004
From: Silke.Reimer at intevation.de (Silke Reimer)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:56:13 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] PEAR::Image_GIS - a php library to convert E00 to
	SVG
In-Reply-To: <40C6C551.4020802@itc.it>
References: <40C6C551.4020802@itc.it>
Message-ID: <20040610125613.GC5237@intevation.de>

Hallo Maurizio,

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 10:07:45AM +0200, Maurizio Napolitano wrote:
> 
> From freshmeat:
> 
> PEAR::Image_GIS provides a parser for the most common format for 
> geographical data, Arcinfo/E00, as well as renderers to produce images 
> using GD or Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG).
> 
> http://www.sebastian-bergmann.de/en/image_gis.php

thanks for the hint. I have added Image_PHP to freegis.org.

	Silke

-- 
Silke Reimer

Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/

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From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Thu Jun 10 15:18:51 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:18:51 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS data processing
In-Reply-To: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DA@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
References: <7648E205582D8A49A9F981145BE01EAB0162DA@gauss.zess.uni-siegen.de>
Message-ID: <1086873531.1286.448.camel@localhost>

Am Mo, den 07.06.2004 schrieb Ayse Sayan um 14:48:
> Hello, 
Hello!

> I have a Trimble Lassen GPSreceiver. I want to make data processing
> from the raw data that I get from my receiver. I am a starter., So
> does anybody have an idea how I can start?

Welcome to the wonders of Windows NT email servers!
The university of Siegen has chosen to use a Win-NT mailserver cluster
to process their in- and outgoing email (I know, because I used to a
student there).
Apart from problems of not being able to send emails at all you now see
the next effects: Double postings!
Really perfect...
I just love Windoze :(

Ayse: Please complain to HRZ! And please *really* do because only many
complains can make them change their minds and finally this crappy
system!

> Ayse Hilal SAYAN

> ----------------------------------------------------
> This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to whom it is addressed , and may contain confidential 
> information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or
> you receive this mail in error, you should refrain from making any use
> of the contents and from opening any attachment. In that case, please
> notify the sender immediately and return the message to the sender,
> then, delete and destroy all copies. This e-mail message, could not be
> copied, published or sold for any reason. 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, and please, the above signature is way too long for a signature and
AFAIK does not make any legal sense (at least in Germany).

CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Thu Jun 10 20:30:22 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:30:22 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS/NMEA map creation, survey, results, howto
Message-ID: <1086892222.1286.469.camel@localhost>

Hi!
Since this has been discussed recently, I have created a web page with
my findings and comments concerning map creation from GPS/NMEA data:

	http://www.kernelconcepts.de/~nils/gis-adventures.html

Comments and/or additions are welcome ;)

CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From bernhard at intevation.de  Thu Jun 10 22:42:15 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:42:15 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS/NMEA data processing
In-Reply-To: <1086798776.2807.401.camel@localhost>
References: <1086798776.2807.401.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040610204215.GC23220@intevation.de>

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 06:32:56PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> After the quite lengthy but very informative thread about GPS/NMEA GIS
> data processing I thought I should share my findings with you. It is not
> much but at least something.

No, that is great! 

> I had a look at QGIS and Thuban now.
> QGIS and Thuban do even look quite similar and offer similar
> functionality - still not vector editing, i.e. you cannot modify the
> shapes, 

Jump probably can do more, but it does not avoid the Java trap
(http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/java-trap.html).
Also PostGIS might help with more complicated operations.

> but you can add annotations and export simple maps from imported shapes. 

The main point of an interactive geoviewer are the classification functions.
If you want to touch up nice printing maps, you should try the
experimental SVG writing support of Thuban (in CVS) and the Skencil
Thuban-Map-SVG reader. Skencil is a full blown vector drawing
application that will allow you to make nice maps and even work on
the polygons.

> QGIS add the functionality of plugins, one of them a GPS import plugin.

Thuban calls a plugin "Extension".

> Though this plugin did not work for me it pushed me into the right
> direction of looking for a filter to change GPS/NMEA tracks into shapes.
> After some research I found a small program called "gpstr2shp.c" which
> converts GPS track data into shape files. 

Good catch.
I did look into creating a Thuban "Plugin" using gpsbabel
which looks promissing, just needs a couple of hours work.

> This track data is not NMEA
> but a rather simple format. 

gpsbabel with GPSMAN format support might help you here directly.
Try to convert it into that.

	Bernhard

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From frank.koormann at intevation.de  Fri Jun 11 09:31:41 2004
From: frank.koormann at intevation.de (Frank Koormann)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:31:41 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] (forw) [postgis-users] Mandrake Linux GIS project?
Message-ID: <20040611073141.GB6281@intevation.de>

Hi,

for those who aren't on the lists included in the original post a
forward from [postgis-users].

Best regards,

        Frank

-- 
Frank Koormann                             <frank.koormann at intevation.de>
 Professional Service around Free Software       (http://intevation.net/)
 FreeGIS Project                                 (http://freegis.org/)
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Subject: [postgis-users] Mandrake Linux GIS project?
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 02:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
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From Viper.WF at gmx.de  Fri Jun 11 09:42:00 2004
From: Viper.WF at gmx.de (Viper.WF@gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:42:00 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Brauche eure Hilfe - Need your help
Message-ID: <40C97E68.24775.5F3FB1@localhost>

Ich habe da eine Frage:
Ist es m?glich, dass mir ein sogenannter MapTip
angezeigt wird, wenn ich mit der Mouse ?ber einem
Objekt auf dem vom MapServer erzeugten Image bin?
Dieser sollte die Informationen enthalten, die auf der
Position des Cursors im ShapeFile liegen.
Sei es nun ein Stadtname, Koordinaten oder sonstige
Daten. Nun m?chte ich allerdings keine "normale" Query
starten, indem ich auf das Objekt klicke, sondern diese
Informationen erhalten, wenn ich mich mit dem Cursor
dar?ber befinde.

Ich w?rde mich ?ber jeden Hinweis oder Tipp freuen.
MfG KLEKsTeam


I've got an urgent question:
Is it possible, that a so called MapTip is shown, when I
move the cursor over an object in the image, that is
generated by the MapServer?
That MapTip should contain information that belong to the
position of the cursor in the shape file. This could be a
name of a town, coordinates or other data.
I don't want to start a "normal" query by clicking the
object, but achieve those  information by just moving the
cursor over and holding it above an object.

I'd be grateful for any hint or tip that could help me solve
this problem.
Regards, KLEKsTeam



From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Fri Jun 11 13:02:50 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:02:50 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GPS/NMEA data processing
In-Reply-To: <20040610204215.GC23220@intevation.de>
References: <1086798776.2807.401.camel@localhost>
	<20040610204215.GC23220@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1086951770.1286.487.camel@localhost>

Am Do, den 10.06.2004 schrieb Bernhard Reiter um 22:42:
> On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 06:32:56PM +0200, Nils Faerber wrote:
> > After the quite lengthy but very informative thread about GPS/NMEA GIS
> > data processing I thought I should share my findings with you. It is not
> > much but at least something.
> No, that is great! 

Thanks ;)

> > I had a look at QGIS and Thuban now.
> > QGIS and Thuban do even look quite similar and offer similar
> > functionality - still not vector editing, i.e. you cannot modify the
> > shapes, 
> Jump probably can do more, but it does not avoid the Java trap
> (http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/java-trap.html).
> Also PostGIS might help with more complicated operations.

Yes, Java is not my choice too. Even apart from the philosophocal
reasons there might be I do not like programming with Java and
especially not the performance of the resulting program. When I startup
a program on a decent machine I do not want to wait five minutes before
it finally comes up.
Even interpreted Python is faster than Java.

If I find some additional time I'll look into PostGIS.

> > but you can add annotations and export simple maps from imported shapes. 
> The main point of an interactive geoviewer are the classification functions.
> If you want to touch up nice printing maps, you should try the
> experimental SVG writing support of Thuban (in CVS) and the Skencil
> Thuban-Map-SVG reader. Skencil is a full blown vector drawing
> application that will allow you to make nice maps and even work on
> the polygons.

Ah, cool, that sound primising!
Though I am still thinking about this GPS map creation stuff. And
involving too many application in the process will make it impossible to
collect GPS data from different sources - ideally from thousands of
users. But that's another story for later ;)

> > QGIS add the functionality of plugins, one of them a GPS import plugin.
> Thuban calls a plugin "Extension".

Ah, OK, sorry :)
Will correct that on the page.

> > Though this plugin did not work for me it pushed me into the right
> > direction of looking for a filter to change GPS/NMEA tracks into shapes.
> > After some research I found a small program called "gpstr2shp.c" which
> > converts GPS track data into shape files. 
> Good catch.
> I did look into creating a Thuban "Plugin" using gpsbabel
> which looks promissing, just needs a couple of hours work.

I looked at gpsbabel and for some reason it does not work for me in
almost all combinations I tried. Either the NMEA input is broken or I do
some other mistake, I don't know.

I think that not using gpsbabel also give the opportunity to add some
more sophisticated options to the NMEA filter.
NMEA is dumb, i.e. it knows nothing about tracks and points and
espcially not about polygons or vectors. The QGIS plugin has some nice
options (which also did not work for me but showed the idea) to tune the
filter. You could introduce thresholds for connecting waypoints to
tracks for example, i.e. if two points are not more than xx degrees
apart from each other then it can be assumed that they are on the same
track. Also is the time distance between two points is more than xx
seconds/minutes then a new track could be started, etc.

You see, this way you could just dump your NMEA data for days and have
at least somewhat intelligent shapefile output.

> > This track data is not NMEA
> > but a rather simple format. 
> gpsbabel with GPSMAN format support might help you here directly.
> Try to convert it into that.

Yes, it would ;)
But then you run into trouble that the output from NMEA input will
always, if at all (s.a.), be just waypoints and no tracks.

OK, let's correct the web page first and then look for Skencil ;)

Oh, and while we are at it, now that I finally have a shapefile I can
also try to use GRASS now ;) Real fun coming up!

> 	Bernhard
CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From frank.koormann at intevation.de  Mon Jun 14 11:22:23 2004
From: frank.koormann at intevation.de (Frank Koormann)
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:22:23 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Brauche eure Hilfe - Need your help
In-Reply-To: <40C97E68.24775.5F3FB1@localhost>
References: <40C97E68.24775.5F3FB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040614092223.GA15840@intevation.de>

Hi,

* Viper.WF at gmx.de <Viper.WF at gmx.de> [040611 09:41]:
> I've got an urgent question:
> Is it possible, that a so called MapTip is shown, when I
> move the cursor over an object in the image, that is
> generated by the MapServer?
> That MapTip should contain information that belong to the
> position of the cursor in the shape file. This could be a
> name of a town, coordinates or other data.
> I don't want to start a "normal" query by clicking the
> object, but achieve those  information by just moving the
> cursor over and holding it above an object.

I don't know of such a feature, however, your question seems to be too 
specific for this list. Have you checked the archives of the
international UMN MapServer List

        http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wilma/mapserver-users

As a second option you can post your question to the international list

        http://lists.gis.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users

or the German speaking list at

        https://freegis.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-de
        
Best regards,

        Frank

-- 
Frank Koormann                             <frank.koormann at intevation.de>
 Professional Service around Free Software       (http://intevation.net/)
 FreeGIS Project                                 (http://freegis.org/)



From Silke.Reimer at intevation.de  Tue Jun 15 14:42:25 2004
From: Silke.Reimer at intevation.de (Silke Reimer)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:42:25 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] GNU/Linuxtag 2004 again
Message-ID: <20040615124225.GA17199@intevation.de>


Hallo!

One month ago Jens Oberender asked on this list whether there is
some interest for a "Free Software GIS meeting" during the
GNU/Linuxtag 2004. 

I think that it would indeed be interesting to have such a meeting
to know each other better and to discuss intersting ideas. Since
Thursday and Friday evening are already reserved for the KALUG-party
and the official social event and we from Intevation are busy with
maintaining our booth during the day we suggest to meet at our booth

       Booth C 102
       on Wedneseday, 
       23th of June 2004
       at 18 o'clock

i.e., when the exhibition has finished. Afterwards we will surely
find a nice location where we can drink some beer together. If some
people are interested in starting a hacking session during the
GNU/Linuxtag this could be the right place to organize it.

Hope to see you at GNU/Linuxtag,

	Silke

-- 
Silke Reimer

Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/

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From jdenisgiguere at fastmail.fm  Tue Jun 15 23:53:01 2004
From: jdenisgiguere at fastmail.fm (Jean-Denis Giguere)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:53:01 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] Mandrake Linux GIS project?
In-Reply-To: <20040609090418.40882.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040609090418.40882.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40CF6FBD.7000409@fastmail.fm>

Sorry for cross-posting, but I want to answer to the original list, but 
I think this is more freegis related.

Wood Brent a ?crit :
> Hello everyone.

Hi and sorry for late answer,
> 
> 
> The msg below is from a Mandrake Linux development list. The idea behind the
> chemistry site is interesting (to me anyway). The reason I'm bringing it up:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a variety of Open Source GIS/mapping packages/tools/libraries on
> Mandrake & the idea of setting up a comparable resource with the support of
> Mandrakesoft I believe is a good one.
> 
> I know there are things like licencing issues (eg: Postgres/PostGIS) but a
> repository or even extra CD with Open Source GIS resources seems feasible.
What is this PostGIS issue ? PostGIS is GPL and Postgre un BSD.
> 
> At a GIS related conference a couple of years ago I presented a 3D
> visualisation system for fisheries data, and the response from the group was
> impressive. Not because what I did was so great, but that it could be done with
> "free" software. There is a real growth in fisheries GIS worldwide, especially
> in the third world, supporting coastal fisheries managment and aquaculture, and
> budgets for Arc & Oracle spatial are limited.
> 
> The most impressive thing I have found with Open Source GIS in the last couple
> of years is the interoperability. I can download shapefiles, e00 data or many
> other formats. Use avcimport, ogr2ogr, shapelib, shp2pgsql to extract &
> reformat, or load into PostGIS. I can query/browse with psql, pgaccess or
> graphically with QGIS/JUMP, I can analyse with GRASS or R & prepare high
> quality publication maps with GMT. Then toss mapserver at it to web-enable the
> stuff. Add some GPS capture software.
> 
> The mix of software seems suitable for releasing as a GIS toolkit, complete
> with operating system, office suite, image editing software, etc.
> 
> While we have Geoware releasing GMT & supporting data & freegis.org with a CD
> compilation, I'm not aware of anyone offering everything in a nice, ready to
> install with a package manager approach. 
> 
> 
> So my questions: 
> 
> Do others believe that the concept of such a GIS toolkit is worth taking
> further?
For sure !!
> 
> Are the various people working with all these packages interested in working
> with Mandrake to develop such a system?
Mandrake could be interesting, but IMHO, it's not the most configurable 
distro. I believe that Debian should be consider as a better choice. I 
have few arguments, but I think
1. Many applications are already packaged. (It is also true for Mandrake)
2. There is a real support for customization called Custom Debian 
Distribution. This offer guideline and tools to produce a good custom 
distro. The support for this kind of development in debian community 
seems to be always greater.
3. Debian is a trustable distro. The community take care of the quality 
of their distro and I think the chance that your work disappear on the 
web because there is no maintener and nobody know that our project exist 
is less.

But, there is not only avantage on Debian side. By example onfiguration 
tools are not user-friendly as mandrake, it could be difficult to start 
a project on debian if nobody is already a Debian developper.
> 
> Is Mandrakesoft interested in adding such a software compilation to it's list
> of packages, perhaps even a Mandrakemove version of GIS Knoppix?
> 
> Am I way too far out in left field?
> 
This project is really a good idea and I'm really intersted to get 
involved. I have worked on a custom distro under Mandrake and I really 
think that we can be better serve by choosing Debian. But, free software 
is a world of possibility. There is room for more than one custom distro 
gis-oriented.

Regards,

Jean-Denis
Student in geomatic applied to environment
Sherbrooke University

> 
> 
>   Brent Wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>Subject: Re: [Cooker] mandrake for scientists
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 19:00:49 -0400
>>
>>On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 23:26 +0200, Guillaume Rousse wrote:
>>
>>>I'd like to communicate more on this topic, for two reasons:
>>>- first, most admins only knows about redhat, and tend to install it 
>>>everywhere
>>>- second, i'd like to lobby scientist themselves for choosing free 
>>>software licences instead of crappy "free for non commercial use" or 
>>>worst licensing agreement.
>>>
>>>Anyone interested ?
>>
>>http://groundstate.ca/mdk4chem
>>is almost 2 years old.
>>
>>Austin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> postgis-users mailing list
> postgis-users at postgis.refractions.net
> http://postgis.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users



From tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca  Wed Jun 16 00:32:44 2004
From: tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca (Tyler Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:32:44 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re:  FOSS GIS suite project?
In-Reply-To: <20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFE02E557D.09092CBD-ON88256EB4.007B21EE-88256EB4.007BD82C@Riverside.bc.ca>

> Agreed. Frank Warmerdam replied to my message & we have swapped a few 
off-list
> emails discussing it. We thought a precompiled binary .tar.gz package
> comprising a range of interoperable FOSS GIS packages which can be 
simply
> installed into it's own tree and was distro independent was perhaps a 
better
> approach than a distro oriented one. 

I too agree with a distribution independent, binary package.  Part of the 
problem with many of the packages is where they put files, how to set env 
settings, etc. so I think that this approach would help alleviate those 
issues.  DM Solutions MS4W package has helped to prove the value of this 
approach with MapServer on Windows at least.  Also, Frank's OpenEV_FW 
packages are an excellent embodiment of packaging too.

I do not believe it should be limited to a tar.gz type of distribution 
though. Once a solid, predictable setup is designed, then others should 
feel free to re-package into the appropriate distribution formats (source, 
RPM, deb, MSI, etc.) based on their platform.

> The idea was to provide a suite of GIS software (data management, query,
> reformat, topology, reproject, GUI, web mapping server/client, etc) 
ready to
> install and supplied as interoperable components with a sample 
dataset(s). 

Good idea, count me in.  This is something I really want to see happen and 
am willing to take as active a role as possible.

Tyler



From tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca  Wed Jun 16 01:04:11 2004
From: tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca (Tyler Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:04:11 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Cooperative GIS link ??
In-Reply-To: <20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF8B813A4D.76D0DE4F-ON88256EB4.007E8AF4-88256EB4.007EB9A6@Riverside.bc.ca>

Hi list, can anyone direct me to the current whereabouts of the project 
listed on freegis as the "Cooperative GIS Project". 
Sounds interesting but link on the project page: 
http://freegis.org/details.en.html?name=The+Cooperative+GIS+Project
is dead...



From Silke.Reimer at intevation.de  Wed Jun 16 09:39:20 2004
From: Silke.Reimer at intevation.de (Silke Reimer)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:39:20 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Cooperative GIS link ??
In-Reply-To: <OF8B813A4D.76D0DE4F-ON88256EB4.007E8AF4-88256EB4.007EB9A6@Riverside.bc.ca>
References: <20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
	<OF8B813A4D.76D0DE4F-ON88256EB4.007E8AF4-88256EB4.007EB9A6@Riverside.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20040616073920.GC17199@intevation.de>

Hallo Tyler,

On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 04:04:11PM -0700, Tyler Mitchell wrote:
> Hi list, can anyone direct me to the current whereabouts of the project
> listed on freegis as the "Cooperative GIS Project".
> Sounds interesting but link on the project page:
> http://freegis.org/details.en.html?name=The+Cooperative+GIS+Project
> is dead...

By chance it is only two days ago that I already tried to find the
correct link of the Cooperative GIS project. What I found was the
following site

    http://escience.anu.edu.au/links/metada_datavisualiastio.en.html

which also lists this project and has been updated in January of
this year. I contacted the author for more information.  He didn't
answer yet but I will inform you (and the list) as soon as he has
done so.

Greetings,

	Silke

-- 
Silke Reimer

Intevation GmbH                      http://intevation.de/
FreeGIS                                http://freegis.org/

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From pcreso at pcreso.com  Wed Jun 16 22:15:16 2004
From: pcreso at pcreso.com (Wood Brent)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:15:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <40CFF474.2030407@itc.it>
Message-ID: <20040616201516.87731.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Maurizio Napolitano <napo at itc.it> wrote:
> I think that there are a lot of "GIS cd live", so is better concentrate
> all togheter on a only one to have always new packages.
> I think that geomorphix, for now, is a good solution: there are a lot
> of GIS software and some data
> Geomorphix come from the live cd morphix.
> This live cd is like Knoppix but gnome oriented.
> Like knoppix a user can have a permanent install on the hard disk.
> 
> For more info (and to contribute)
> http://www.geomorphix.org

Interesting site. Could you post some info about what exactly geomorphix is &
the project goals are?

As the one who instigated this thing, perhaps I should try to clarify exactly
what I'm envisaging.

There are at least 4 GIS oriented LiveCD's that I'm aware of. They are not
quite what I envisage, although they do serve a useful purpose. They do,
however serve as a OS straightjacket. Click to install to hard drive. You can't
easily install the GIS packages from a LiveCD to your SUSE/Fedora/Debian
install. Certainly not on Windows, even with Cygwin. So I don't see a live CD
as a suitable medium for supplying GIS software. Great for
teaching/demonstrating or GIS "appliances".

It sort of boils down to the GIS as a science/toolbox debate. Most GIS users
IMHO treat GIS as a toolbox. Developers more as a science. 

Commercial GIS products tend to be available as modular products, users
purchase the modules they require (or can afford :-) They find a base GIS
product with modules from available offerings, often based upon whatever they
have used before or recommended by others in their field. (I'm talking mainly
about science GIS users). Generally they aquire GIS much as an interoperable
suite of software packages.

FOSS GIS comprises a range of packages to do different things. For each role in
a GIS suite there may be more than one suitable package. Installation is NOT
the simple process generally available for commercial software suites.

What I believe is timely, is the repackaging of FOSS GIS packages as a suite. I
believe FOSS GIS is pretty much at a stage where a powerful and effective GIS
suite can be packaged up and provided to users who don't have to aquire 5-10+
different packages from various places and assemble them on their systems to
make a functuinal GIS suite.

I'm fully aware (and appreciate) that many of the packages (JUMP, QGIS, GRASS)
are undergoing frantic development right now, and adding to the potential power
of a GIS suite. I believe they are currently stable and functional enough to be
more than useful and effective.

Freegis provides access to the various FOSS GIS packages, but does not attempt
to bundle them into a suite, which I feel is the next step required to foster
the use of FOSS GIS & the growth of the FOSS GIS community.

I'm not sure how much of this sort of role the Cooperative GIS group are doing,
but perhaps that could be a good place to start.


Brent Wood



From tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca  Wed Jun 16 22:28:39 2004
From: tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca (Tyler Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:28:39 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: FOSS GIS suite project!
In-Reply-To: <20040616201516.87731.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFA13A2F7C.EAC829C6-ON88256EB5.006F99D2-88256EB5.00707C1C@Riverside.bc.ca>

> Interesting site. Could you post some info about what exactly geomorphix 
is &
> the project goals are?

I believe that the live boot CD's target a fundamentally different 
audience than what Brent and others are interested in.  "Live" cd's are 
awesome for demonstrating and in some cases adopting a certain 
distribution with these great tools readily available.  However, this does 
not address those who are not looking at changing distributions or 
operating systems and who just need access to the tools.

> What I believe is timely, is the repackaging of FOSS GIS packages asa 
suite. I
> believe FOSS GIS is pretty much at a stage where a powerful and 
effective GIS
> suite can be packaged up and provided to users who don't have to aquire 
5-10+
> different packages from various places and assemble them on their 
systems to
> make a functuinal GIS suite.

I'm with you.  There are great examples out there of how this can be done 
from various angles requiring varying degrees of complexity.  With a 
target of installing a few binary packages on a few platforms, we need to 
pick a set of pieces.  The increasingly typical process (download zip/tar, 
expand, run) is the place to start, then when ready it can be wrapped with 
various installers (if desired).  OpenEV_FW is the best example that comes 
to mind and it's proved on multi-platform already.

> I'm fully aware (and appreciate) that many of the packages (JUMP, QGIS, 
GRASS)
> are undergoing frantic development right now, and adding to the 
> potential power
> of a GIS suite. I believe they are currently stable and functional 
> enough to be
> more than useful and effective.

I agree that maturity is not an issue.  We need a "distribution" of 
toolkits that users can choose from.  I envision something like a dinner 
menu with category choices like: database backend, analytical tools, 
visualization, publishing, etc.

> Freegis provides access to the various FOSS GIS packages, but does not 
attempt
> to bundle them into a suite, which I feel is the next step required to 
foster
> the use of FOSS GIS & the growth of the FOSS GIS community.

That is my paramount concern.  These excellent tools (by excellent 
developers) deserve wider distribution to, IMHO, a very willing audience 
who will benefit from the choice.
 
> I'm not sure how much of this sort of role the Cooperative GIS groupare 
doing,
> but perhaps that could be a good place to start.

I can't find any info about that project - I'll suggest that it appears to 
be dead - maybe that comment will elicit a response ;)

Tyler



From tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca  Thu Jun 17 00:47:35 2004
From: tjmitchell at riverside.bc.ca (Tyler Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:47:35 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
Message-ID: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>

> What do you think about virtual package. Many distribution offer this 
> option (Mandrake and Debian do, other probably). When you install a 
> virtual package, you install all the dependencies of this virtual 
> package (other package like MapServer, Grass, ..., ..., ...) and you 
> configure them. I don't have to redo work that was previously done.

I think that is the general idea.  Many users don't want to (and can't) 
deal with shared libraries, compiling from source.

> It will be very important to have a workplace. Which web site or 
> organisation can given complete tools for building this suite ?

Sourceforge is a natural option, though I'd say it's open for discussion. 
Any suggestions?

May I suggest we drop this discussion from the Postgis user list and keep 
it on Freegis, since many of us are on both lists?

Tyler



From bh at udev.org  Thu Jun 17 00:59:05 2004
From: bh at udev.org (Henrion Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:59:05 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Freegis starting a European Petition?
Message-ID: <20040616225905.GB3753@debina.ctnet.pl>

Hello,

You should be aware that, with the new constitution, citizens have the
rights to start an initiative of proposing a directive.

It would be great to have 10exp6 signatures to liberates public geodata,
as many countries keep redistribution of those maps under strict
copyright even if those one are provided under a data format.

Maybe we can start a petition? Or a similar action to collect
signatures?

Or maybe waiting that the constitution is adopted...

-- 
Benjamin Henrion <bh at udev.org>
http://bh.udev.org
<<< Push the Parliament democracy against Commission-Council Terrorism >>>
<<<   Promoting Abuses of the Patent System is Juridical Terrorism     >>>
<<<                         http://swpat.ffii.org                      >>>



From warmerdam at pobox.com  Thu Jun 17 02:17:35 2004
From: warmerdam at pobox.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:17:35 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <40D0E31F.7020107@pobox.com>

Tyler Mitchell wrote:
>>What do you think about virtual package. Many distribution offer this 
>>option (Mandrake and Debian do, other probably). When you install a 
>>virtual package, you install all the dependencies of this virtual 
>>package (other package like MapServer, Grass, ..., ..., ...) and you 
>>configure them. I don't have to redo work that was previously done.
> 
> I think that is the general idea.  Many users don't want to (and can't) 
> deal with shared libraries, compiling from source.

Folks,

Well, I was envisaging a base package and then lots of add ons.  The base
package would be "fat" and contain most of the support libraries that
might ever be needed.

"virtual packages" seems to imply a greater degree of granularity then I
was expecting to achieve.

>>It will be very important to have a workplace. Which web site or 
>>organisation can given complete tools for building this suite ?
> 
> 
> Sourceforge is a natural option, though I'd say it's open for discussion. 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> May I suggest we drop this discussion from the Postgis user list and keep 
> it on Freegis, since many of us are on both lists?

I don't think sourceforge is the appropriate place to build the software.
They don't like you using too much disk space, or doing much stuff on the
main shell accounts.  And access to the compile farms is very ackward
as well as having limits on disk space and so forth.

So, yes, I agree we need a server to build on that we can issue shell accounts
to a number of participants.  That will be key.  Once we have that we could
start work pretty much right away.

I might be able to provide accounts and space on remotesensing.org but that is
still "in transition" just now.

Best regards,
-- 
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam at pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent



From cavallini at faunalia.it  Thu Jun 17 08:10:10 2004
From: cavallini at faunalia.it (Paolo Cavallini)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:10:10 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Freegis starting a European Petition?
In-Reply-To: <20040616225905.GB3753@debina.ctnet.pl>
References: <20040616225905.GB3753@debina.ctnet.pl>
Message-ID: <200406170810.14816.cavallini@faunalia.it>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I believe thisi is a very good idea, and should be supported. Count on me, 
anyway.
pc

At 00:59, gioved? 17 giugno 2004, Henrion Benjamin has probably written:
> Hello,
>
> You should be aware that, with the new constitution, citizens have the
> rights to start an initiative of proposing a directive.
>
> It would be great to have 10exp6 signatures to liberates public geodata,
> as many countries keep redistribution of those maps under strict
> copyright even if those one are provided under a data format.
>
> Maybe we can start a petition? Or a similar action to collect
> signatures?
>
> Or maybe waiting that the constitution is adopted...

- -- 
Paolo Cavallini
cavallini at faunalia.it            www.faunalia.it
Piazza Garibaldi 5 - 56025 Pontedera (PI), Italy   Tel: (+39)348-3801953
GPG key @: www.faunalia.it/Public_key_Paolo.asc
Only free software: www.gnu.org / www.linux.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFA0TXC/NedwLUzIr4RAuewAJsG7VPhTWhLOf8pjsHGFY0YXAU5yQCgiNn4
xv0/mY4G+zHn/mV+4qQMC+U=
=akTE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca  Thu Jun 17 20:52:06 2004
From: dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca (Daniel Morissette)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:52:06 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <40D0E31F.7020107@pobox.com>
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
	<40D0E31F.7020107@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <40D1E856.9050104@dmsolutions.ca>

Frank Warmerdam wrote:
> 
> Well, I was envisaging a base package and then lots of add ons.  The base
> package would be "fat" and contain most of the support libraries that
> might ever be needed.
> 
> "virtual packages" seems to imply a greater degree of granularity then I
> was expecting to achieve.
> 

I'm sorry, I seem to have missed the beginning of this discussion, but I 
would like to add a few things:

- As I'm writing this, we (DM Solutions) are trying to come up with a 
clean way to distribute MapServer and its dependencies. So whatever you 
do please keep us in the loop, we'll be interested in working with you.

- We have been experimenting with RPMs until now and it's quite a 
nightmare to deal with all the dependencies we need without screwing up 
the target machine. MapServer and most open source GIS packages always 
want the latest of everything so we would have to package new or patched 
versions of many libraries and packages (Curl, PHP, even Apache, etc.) 
already distributed as part of the base OS (by RedHat or others)

- The idea of a "fat" base package may end up being the only viable 
solution, that's the way the MS4W package works on Windows for instance 
(http://maptools.org/ms4w/). That's probably what we'll have to do at 
the end, but I was hoping that we could leverage the package management 
mechanisms on each OS.

Could someone elaborate more about "virtual packages"?  Does this come 
with a formal configuration mechanism, or is this just a word you use to 
describe the concept of distributing multiple packages together?


> 
> I don't think sourceforge is the appropriate place to build the software.
> They don't like you using too much disk space, or doing much stuff on the
> main shell accounts.  And access to the compile farms is very ackward
> as well as having limits on disk space and so forth.
> 

> So, yes, I agree we need a server to build on that we can issue shell 
> accounts
> to a number of participants.  That will be key.  Once we have that we could
> start work pretty much right away.
> 

DM Solutions could offer a box dedicated to that if there is enough 
interest from serious developers.

Daniel
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
  Daniel Morissette               dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca
  DM Solutions Group              http://www.dmsolutions.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------



From warmerdam at pobox.com  Thu Jun 17 21:06:21 2004
From: warmerdam at pobox.com (Frank Warmerdam)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:06:21 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <40D1E856.9050104@dmsolutions.ca>
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>	<40D0E31F.7020107@pobox.com>
	<40D1E856.9050104@dmsolutions.ca>
Message-ID: <40D1EBAD.9030603@pobox.com>


> DM Solutions could offer a box dedicated to that if there is enough 
> interest from serious developers.

Daniel,

We have established a mailing list for discussions of the FOSS GIS suite
effort:

   http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/foss-gis-suite

There is also the start of a wiki at:

   http://harmeny.com/twiki/bin/view/Fgs/WebHome

It looks like we will start out building the packages on a Harmeny provided
machine.

Best regards,
-- 
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, warmerdam at pobox.com
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent



From hubert.froehlich at bvv.bayern.de  Fri Jun 18 12:58:39 2004
From: hubert.froehlich at bvv.bayern.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hubert_Fr=F6hlich?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 12:58:39 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Hi list, 
Message-ID: <40D2CADF.4040201@bvv.bayern.de>

Hi list,

enclosed a WWW link to a probably interesting meeting on "free software 
and GIS" in Munich (unfortunately only in German ...)

http://www.rtg.bv.tum.de/index.php/article/articleview/359/1/98

Greetings,

Hubert Fr?hlich
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr.-Ing. Hubert Fr?hlich			
Bezirksfinanzdirektion M?nchen 			
Alexandrastr. 3, D-80538 M?nchen, GERMANY
Tel. :+49 (0)89 / 2190 - 2980
Fax  :+49 (0)89 / 2190 - 2997
hubert dot froehlich at bvv dot bayern dot de



From aantoniou1 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Jun 19 22:19:18 2004
From: aantoniou1 at yahoo.co.uk (Andreas Antoniou)
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 23:19:18 +0300
Subject: [Freegis-list] Linux and GIS questions
Message-ID: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>

Dear list,

 

I would like your suggestions on the following questions:

What do I need to start using Linux?

Where I can find information on using Linux under command line and graphics?

What is the effort needed for operating GRASS or any other GIS under Linux?

 

Thank you in advance

Andreas Antoniou

BSc(Hons) Forest Management

 

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From nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de  Sun Jun 20 14:50:56 2004
From: nils.faerber at kernelconcepts.de (Nils Faerber)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 14:50:56 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Linux and GIS questions
In-Reply-To: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>
References: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <1087735856.3838.77.camel@localhost>

Am Sa, den 19.06.2004 schrieb Andreas Antoniou um 22:19:
> Dear list,
Hi!

> I would like your suggestions on the following questions:
> What do I need to start using Linux?

A distribution.
Please browse Google or linux.org for appropriate choices. I would
recommend Debian but that's a matter of taste.

> Where I can find information on using Linux under command line and
> graphics?

That's quite difficult to answer since your question is very broad in
scope. Try your next bookstore for books on getting started with Linux -
there should be plenty.

> What is the effort needed for operating GRASS or any other GIS under
> Linux?

For Debian it is quite easy
	apt-get install grass

and ready you are.
For using GRASS you have to consult the GRASS documentation.

> Thank you in advance
> Andreas Antoniou
CU
  nils faerber

-- 
kernel concepts          Tel: +49-271-771091-12
Dreisbachstr. 24         Fax: +49-271-771091-19
D-57250 Netphen          Mob: +49-176-21024535
--



From mailinglist2_wegmann at web.de  Sun Jun 20 17:43:26 2004
From: mailinglist2_wegmann at web.de (Martin Wegmann)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:43:26 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Linux and GIS questions
In-Reply-To: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>
References: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <200406201743.26992.mailinglist2_wegmann@web.de>

Hello, 

On Saturday 19 June 2004 22:19, Andreas Antoniou wrote:
> I would like your suggestions on the following questions:
>
> What do I need to start using Linux?

you either need a fast internet connection to download a Linux distribution or 
a few bugs to buy the CD + Handbooks in your book- or computerstore. 
In my opinion debian is the best choice but if you are a Linux novice you are 
better up to use Suse or Redhat or Mandrake - the installation is pretty 
straight forward and using kde or gnome is quite intuitive. 

> Where I can find information on using Linux under command line and
> graphics?

there are several books and online infos available on both, command line and 
graphical user interface. but as said before, for the user interface you 
usually don't need a tutorial but some interest to explorer the new desktop. 

> What is the effort needed for operating GRASS or any other GIS under Linux?

if you try QGIS, Thuban or Jump the effort is relatively small, but to 
conqueror GRASS requires some effort - the same as learning ArcInfo or ERDAS. 
You will find very good tutorials on the grass pages, which will make the 
learning curve capable. 

enjoy Linux and GRASS! cheers Martin



From pcreso at pcreso.com  Mon Jun 21 01:25:12 2004
From: pcreso at pcreso.com (Wood Brent)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 16:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Linux and GIS questions
In-Reply-To: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20040620232512.67084.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Andreas Antoniou <aantoniou1 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Dear list,
> 
>  
> 
> I would like your suggestions on the following questions:
> 
> What do I need to start using Linux?

Pretty much any PC with reasonable specifications and the CD's to install Linux
from. Linux is available in a variety of flavours, called distributions. There
are differences between distributions, if you are a novice perhaps Mandrake is
a bit more user friendly than most others.

A site like www.distrowatch.com may help you sort out a suitable distribution
to meet your needs.


You can get the Linux install CD's by downloading the CD iso images, buying a
commercial copy or getting a copy of the downloadable CD's. Such copies are
generally available from local Linux user groups (LUG) for a nominal fee.

This site has a pretty good listing of worldwide LUG's to see if there is one
near you. Auction sites like Yahoo & trademe also often have people selling
Linux CD's.

http://www.linux.org/groups/index.html

> 
> Where I can find information on using Linux under command line and graphics?

If you use a distribution like Mandrake, there is a lot of how-to documentation
& the Rute Linux manual included, which may provide more detail than you really
want. There are also many books available as introductions to using Linux, many
of which come with a version of Linux to install and use. The www.linux.org
site above also offers resources for Linux users, but again, if there is a
local LUG, it would be a good place to start.


> 
> What is the effort needed for operating GRASS or any other GIS under Linux?
> 

GRASS is pretty powerful & complex to set up & use for a novice Linux/GIS user.
There is a very good textbook available to help you learn if you do use GRASS,
in addition to a number of on-line GRASS tuorials and resources. It also comes
with a good sample dataset to help learn how to use it.

Packages like QGIS and JUMP are simpler to set up and use, but you may still
need to intall other software to really make them useful. (things like spatial
data management software, reformatting and reprojection software, etc. It may
be helpful to work out what data you want to work with and exactly what you
want to do with it before decising on the GIS software to use. eg: do you
already have the data, what format is it, do you want publication quality maps
produced, how much & what sort of analysis, etc.

All the Open Source GIS packages have mailing lists for users to provide
community support, it may be useful to browse the archives of these lists to
see the sorts of messages/topics to help assess the fit with your needs.



Brent Wood



From pcreso at pcreso.com  Wed Jun 16 00:15:00 2004
From: pcreso at pcreso.com (Wood Brent)
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <40CF6FBD.7000409@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jean-Denis Giguere <jdenisgiguere at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Sorry for cross-posting, but I want to answer to the original list, but 
> I think this is more freegis related.

Agreed. Frank Warmerdam replied to my message & we have swapped a few off-list
emails discussing it. We thought a precompiled binary .tar.gz package
comprising a range of interoperable FOSS GIS packages which can be simply
installed into it's own tree and was distro independent was perhaps a better
approach than a distro oriented one. 

The idea was to provide a suite of GIS software (data management, query,
reformat, topology, reproject, GUI, web mapping server/client, etc) ready to
install and supplied as interoperable components with a sample dataset(s). (At
least that's about what I think we agreed as a possible goal :-)

We also felt it was something which should be discussed on the freegis list as
well, before progressing it any further.

Which I guess is now happening :-)

I suggest a name change for the thread (as above) and let the discussion
commence!


  Brent Wood 



From tmitchell at lignum.com  Thu Jun 17 00:43:01 2004
From: tmitchell at lignum.com (Tyler Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:43:01 -0700
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: FOSS GIS suite project? (was Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <40D0CA62.5030004@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <OFD5002D64.5050196D-ON88256EB5.007C64A4-88256EB5.007CC944@Riverside.bc.ca>

> What do you think about virtual package. Many distribution offer this 
> option (Mandrake and Debian do, other probably). When you install a 
> virtual package, you install all the dependencies of this virtual 
> package (other package like MapServer, Grass, ..., ..., ...) and you 
> configure them. I don't have to redo work that was previously done.

I think that is the general idea.  Many users don't want to (and can't) 
deal with shared libraries, compiling from source.

> It will be very important to have a workplace. Which web site or 
> organisation can given complete tools for building this suite ?

Sourceforge is a natural option, though I'd say it's open for discussion. 
Any suggestions?

May I suggest we drop this discussion from the Postgis user list and keep 
it on Freegis, since many of us are on both lists?

Tyler




From bwilson at ihpva.org  Sun Jun 20 15:57:13 2004
From: bwilson at ihpva.org (Brian Wilson)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Linux and GIS questions
In-Reply-To: <1087735856.3838.77.camel@localhost>
References: <20040619201546.2E5B53711A@mail.intevation.de>
	<1087735856.3838.77.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0406200651040.30856@mars.clickshift.com>

> That's quite difficult to answer since your question is very broad in
> scope. Try your next bookstore for books on getting started with Linux -
> there should be plenty.

Try your public library and check the books that include a CDROM;
almost always they have a Linux distribution on the disk.
If you do, watch out for old books; for example don't use Redhat
older than 7.2.

Brian




From jidanni at jidanni.org  Thu Jun 17 03:09:03 2004
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (Dan Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:09:03 +0800
Subject: [Freegis-list] https mailing lists
References: <40C97E68.24775.5F3FB1@localhost>
	<20040614092223.GA15840@intevation.de>
Message-ID: <87oenj0z4g.fsf_-_@jidanni.org>

F> https://freegis.org/mailman/listinfo/....

Can search engines deal with https sites? Probably.  However it is a
big pain in the butt for use wwwoffle users.  Can't only the really
necessary parts of your mailing lists be made https? Probably one can
also enter thru http. if so that should be the advertised link.
Anyway, I read them on gmane.org.



From GIS at mailer.bsu.edu.ph  Mon Jun 21 10:37:20 2004
From: GIS at mailer.bsu.edu.ph (GIS@mailer.bsu.edu.ph)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:37:20 +0800 (PHT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project? (was
	Mandrake GIS)
In-Reply-To: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <29952.202.90.128.28.1087807040.squirrel@mailer.bsu.edu.ph>

Dear List,

I am from the Benguet State University (http://www.bsu.edu.ph)..I am
looking for an agency/institution or university interested to link with us
and work with our project on "Crop Zonification of Benguet Province using
GIS"..we have the hardware and laboratory but we lack licensed software
and appropriate GIS training...if you are interested for a project tie-up
or you knew one that we could contact please dont hesitate to e-mail us at
GIS at mailer.bsu.edu.ph

by the way, Benguet Province is within the Cordillera Region (vegetable
basket of the Philippines) and is very near Baguio City
thanks a lot..

Precila Gonzales-Salcedo





From GIS at mailer.bsu.edu.ph  Mon Jun 21 10:39:14 2004
From: GIS at mailer.bsu.edu.ph (GIS@mailer.bsu.edu.ph)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:39:14 +0800 (PHT)
Subject: [Freegis-list] PROJECT TIE-UP/LINKAGE
In-Reply-To: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <30402.202.90.128.28.1087807154.squirrel@mailer.bsu.edu.ph>

Dear List,

I am from the Benguet State University (http://www.bsu.edu.ph)..I am
looking for an agency/institution or university interested to link with us
and work with our project on "Crop Zonification of Benguet Province using
GIS"..we have the hardware and laboratory but we lack licensed software
and appropriate GIS training...if you are interested for a project tie-up
or you knew one that we could contact please dont hesitate to e-mail us at
GIS at mailer.bsu.edu.ph

by the way, Benguet Province is within the Cordillera Region (vegetable
basket of the Philippines) and is very near Baguio City
thanks a lot..

Precila Gonzales-Salcedo





From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun 21 13:17:05 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:17:05 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] https mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <87oenj0z4g.fsf_-_@jidanni.org>
References: <40C97E68.24775.5F3FB1@localhost>
	<20040614092223.GA15840@intevation.de>
	<87oenj0z4g.fsf_-_@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <20040621111705.GS24073@intevation.de>

On Thu, Jun 17, 2004 at 09:09:03AM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote:
> F> https://freegis.org/mailman/listinfo/....

> Can search engines deal with https sites? Probably.  However it is a
> big pain in the butt for use wwwoffle users.  Can't only the really
> necessary parts of your mailing lists be made https? Probably one can
> also enter thru http. if so that should be the advertised link.
> Anyway, I read them on gmane.org.

Yes, you can use http to enter.
For links were you would enter personal information like an email 
password, the https should be the default.

	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
Experts for complex webmapping! In business since 1999:
	http://intevation.net/services/gis/webmapping.en.html
Pay for FreeGIS if you like it: http://freegis.org/about-paying.en.html
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From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun 21 13:21:41 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:21:41 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project?
In-Reply-To: <20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <40CF6FBD.7000409@fastmail.fm>
	<20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040621112141.GT24073@intevation.de>

On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 03:15:00PM -0700, Wood Brent wrote:
> I suggest a name change for the thread (as above) and let the discussion
> commence!

Personally I like to avoid "FOSS" or "FLOSS",
is it is like saying this is an "apple", "apfel" and "pomme".
Knowing the meaning (all words mean apple), 
no sensible person would do this, but choose
one wording and the political implications in using it
and explain it further if necessary.

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
Experts for complex webmapping! In business since 1999:
	http://intevation.net/services/gis/webmapping.en.html
Pay for FreeGIS if you like it: http://freegis.org/about-paying.en.html
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From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun 21 13:29:13 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:29:13 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Free Software GIS suite project?
In-Reply-To: <OFE02E557D.09092CBD-ON88256EB4.007B21EE-88256EB4.007BD82C@Riverside.bc.ca>
References: <20040615221500.17489.qmail@web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
	<OFE02E557D.09092CBD-ON88256EB4.007B21EE-88256EB4.007BD82C@Riverside.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20040621112913.GU24073@intevation.de>

On Tue, Jun 15, 2004 at 03:32:44PM -0700, Tyler Mitchell wrote:
> > Agreed. Frank Warmerdam replied to my message & we have swapped
> > a few off-list emails discussing it. We thought a precompiled
> > binary .tar.gz package comprising a range of interoperable FOSS
> > GIS packages which can be simply installed into it's own tree 
> > and was distro independent was perhaps a  better
> > approach than a distro oriented one. 
> 
> I too agree with a distribution independent, binary package.  

I fear that this will not be easy technically.
Binaries highly depend on the system libraries which are very
different between distributions and even major release numbers
of distributions. If we want to have really stable software
especially with something like PostGIS it has to be adapted to the
target system.

Note that www.openpkg.org is the best solution to the problem that I
know, but it would only work for server packages.


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From bernhard at intevation.de  Mon Jun 21 13:38:38 2004
From: bernhard at intevation.de (Bernhard Reiter)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:38:38 +0200
Subject: [Freegis-list] Free Software GIS suite project?
In-Reply-To: <20040616201516.87731.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <40CFF474.2030407@itc.it>
	<20040616201516.87731.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040621113838.GV24073@intevation.de>

On Wed, Jun 16, 2004 at 01:15:16PM -0700, Wood Brent wrote:

> There are at least 4 GIS oriented LiveCD's that I'm aware of. They are not
> quite what I envisage, although they do serve a useful purpose. They do,
> however serve as a OS straightjacket. 

Live CD can serve to lower the burden so people can try the software.
Thus they are very important.


> Click to install to hard drive. You can't
> easily install the GIS packages from a LiveCD to your SUSE/Fedora/Debian
> install. Certainly not on Windows, even with Cygwin. So I don't see a live CD
> as a suitable medium for supplying GIS software. Great for
> teaching/demonstrating or GIS "appliances".

Yes, another problem is:

	They can rarely used as bases for commercial delopyment
	(not proprietary Software deployment)
	because the source needs correct handling.

> Commercial GIS products tend to be available as modular products, users
> purchase the modules they require (or can afford :-) 

You have probably ment "proprietary" GIS products.
There are many commercial Free Software GIS products.
http://intevation.de/%7Ejan/infos/dont_oppose_commercial_and_free_software.en.html

> Freegis provides access to the various FOSS GIS packages, but does not attempt
> to bundle them into a suite, which I feel is the next step required to foster
> the use of FOSS GIS & the growth of the FOSS GIS community.

The first step was to make the available Free Software applications
and components known. The FreeGIS project reached that goal successfully.
You are right in that integration should follow.
However that will not happen centralised in my opinion.

We have quite some experience with the FreeGIS CD and
Intevation also produced a FreeGIS CD and learned a bit:
There is not much market to put a lot of effort into the integration
because GIS is still an expert topic which people tend to spend
money differently on.
Building of binaries should better be handled by the distributions
and the individual project. There is a competition going fueling
the motivation. It helps to support both to do this properly
and it seem to be a lot of fine tuning. The Freegis team here
as answered many questions and pushed quite some project
to actually make their code available as Free Software.
This base work will need to be continued on a broader basis.

	Bernhard

-- 
Professional Service around Free Software                (intevation.net)  
Experts for complex webmapping! In business since 1999:
	http://intevation.net/services/gis/webmapping.en.html
Pay for FreeGIS if you like it: http://freegis.org/about-paying.en.html
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From dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca  Mon Jun 21 23:29:21 2004
From: dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca (Daniel Morissette)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project?
In-Reply-To: <87hdt5zuck.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>	<40D0E31F.7020107@pobox.com>
	<40D1E856.9050104@dmsolutions.ca> <87hdt5zuck.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <40D75331.9060903@dmsolutions.ca>

Dan Jacobson wrote:
>>>>>>"D" == Daniel Morissette <dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca> writes:
> 
> 
> D> nightmare to deal with all the dependencies we need without screwing
> 
> You could add mapserver to Debian and be its maintainer.
> 

Actually, Paul Baker was maintaining a set of Debian packages:
http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/data2/wilma/mapserver-users/0401/msg00078.html

I think he ran into the same types of issues that I was referring to 
with respect to the "bleeding-edge" requirements of MapServer, but he 
eventually managed to get things to work using the standard Debian 
packaging mechanism.

Daniel
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
  Daniel Morissette               dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca
  DM Solutions Group              http://www.dmsolutions.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------



From frengers at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 29 23:05:23 2004
From: frengers at hotmail.com (Francis Rengers)
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:05:23 -0000
Subject: [Freegis-list] .bil to dem?
Message-ID: <BAY18-F22Tvymdmg0NT00039a95@hotmail.com>

Does anyone know how to convert a .bil file to a useful dem in Arcgis?
                                                                             
        Francis Rengers

_________________________________________________________________

From jidanni at jidanni.org  Mon Jun 21 22:09:26 2004
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (Dan Jacobson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:09:26 -0000
Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: [postgis-users] FOSS GIS suite project?
References: <OF65F57B34.92264D74-ON88256EB5.007D02B7-88256EB5.007D3470@Riverside.bc.ca>
	<40D0E31F.7020107@pobox.com> <40D1E856.9050104@dmsolutions.ca>
Message-ID: <87hdt5zuck.fsf@jidanni.org>

>>>>> "D" == Daniel Morissette <dmorissette at dmsolutions.ca> writes:

D> nightmare to deal with all the dependencies we need without screwing

You could add mapserver to Debian and be its maintainer.