From jan at intevation.de Tue May 2 09:45:13 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:45:13 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] shapelib RPM for PowerPC In-Reply-To: <20000426133013.F20658@hgeo02.geog.uni-hannover.de>; from neteler@geog.uni-hannover.de on Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 01:30:13PM +0100 References: <20000426133021.A5189@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> <20000426133013.F20658@hgeo02.geog.uni-hannover.de> Message-ID: <20000502094513.A14365@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 01:30:13PM +0100, Markus Neteler wrote: > did you manage to compile GRASS on PPC? I received > several request... > > If patching would be required, please let me know. > I have no PPC available here. we definitely want to port GRASS to PowerPCs. We have done some tests and most of the code seems to compile. However those few percent that does not work may mean a lot of work (as usual). Yes, I think some patches will be needed and we will report them to you. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Tue May 2 17:50:41 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 17:50:41 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] GMT and iGMT for PPC Message-ID: <20000502175041.A20015@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> PPC RPM packages for GMT 3.3.4 and iGMT 1.2 are now available. I have placed them at: ftp://intevation.de/freegis/gnu-linux-ppc/updates/ Again, only tested with LinuxPPC 2000 on a G3 Powerbook. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Wed May 3 12:24:18 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:24:18 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] MapServer for PPC Message-ID: <20000503122418.A26767@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> PPC RPM packages for MapServer 3.3.006 is now available. I have placed it at: ftp://intevation.de/freegis/gnu-linux-ppc/updates/ Again, only tested with LinuxPPC 2000 on a G3 Powerbook. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Thu May 4 17:44:26 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:44:26 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] gmap 1.1.2 PPC packages (unfortunately a little bit buggy) Message-ID: <20000504174426.A12153@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> Dear all, I have created a PPC package of gmap 1.1.2. I needed to set the compile option CXXFLAGS=-fpermissive to have all the code compiled (setting CFLAGS as suggested on the FAQ page of gmap does not work). This is of course not a proper method and might induce some errors. However, the usmap of Alaska is not architecture independent as I thought and it is rebuild on the PPC. Something with big endian I presume. Still some strange core dumps happen when using view points. Besides, the graphical presentation is not correct. I am yet not sure whether it is the data itself or something with the visualisation routines. However, I have placed the two packages gmap-1.1.2-1.ppc.rpm usmap_ak-1.0-1.noarch.rpm for testing at ftp://intevation.de/freegis/gnu-linux-ppc/updates/ Regards Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Fri May 5 14:02:56 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 14:02:56 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: Free data? It doesn't exist In-Reply-To: ; from pasi.pekkinen@nls.fi on Fri, May 05, 2000 at 10:29:00AM +0300 References: <2175570B714DD2118BA200A0C960E79912CF3F@haddock> <20000504142857.C8536@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> Message-ID: <20000505140256.A18531@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Fri, May 05, 2000 at 10:29:00AM +0300, Pekkinen Pasi wrote: > Maybe it is just because of my limited understanding, but I find that there is > much silly talk about free data. First of all, free data does not exist, > somebody must always pay for it, simple as that. It is not silly at all. The term 'free' in 'Free Data' is not to be mixed with the term 'free' in 'free beer'. It is also a matter of languages - I know that in some the term 'gratis' and 'free' are the same which makes it diffcult to discuss about Free Software or Free Data. Now: 'Free' is not equal to 'gratis'. Building Free Data cost money as Free Software does. Nontheless Free Software is (or can be) commercial software. The same applies to Free Data. Hence the simple methods of our economic system can work to produce Free Data. It was tried to avoid this problem of terms by saying "Open Source Software", but this does reveal its own problems again, so the term 'Free' is still the best available one for the english language. One trick of Free Data/Free Software is: its development is not gratis, but it is paid only once. > Secondly, as NMAs are government agencies their budgets are controlled and > planned under the supervision of respective ministries and are many times > directed by much broader national pricing policies. The NMAs aren't in many > cases, allowed to do as they please e.g. give away data for free. It is up to > the national governments to take such decisions and allocate required funding. True, local authorities have often a maxime to gain their expenses back by charging for their services. For NMAs this might show up as a dead-end more quickly than for any other. At least in Germany, high-quality vector data were created. The costs were immense and so are the costs for an non-exclusive non-transferable right to use them. In the end, almost no one uses these data. The governments should change the maxime just as in the US where data produced with public money automatically belong to the public (well, except for classified data of course). > Thirdly, if we think of the US case where federal data is available for merely > extraction costs, it is the federal government which covers the costs of doing > such. This pricing policy is not applied to state level data. In the European > case, the analogy would be that the Commission would cover the costs for > producing free European level data. I would appreciate that. However, our national governments and the Commission cover the costs of numerous infrastructural expenses. Why not also Free Data? Economy would benefit from this since there would be less need to pay data. A dynamic economy will take advantage of better infrastructure and be able to offer improved severices based on this infrastructure. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Fri May 5 15:50:05 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 15:50:05 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] FreeGIS news Message-ID: <20000505155005.D19800@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> - The english link to BBBike was no more valid. It is exchanged by a link to source codes and to a web-available application (german only). - OSSIM authors have changed their intention with the license: now they clearly aim at GPL and LGPL This is good news and might better attract potential contributors. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Thu May 11 10:36:00 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:36:00 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] FreeGIS news: TARDEM now licensed with GPL Message-ID: <20000511103600.A7667@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> David Torboton has just released a new version of TARDEM (version 4) now licensed with the GPL. TARDEM is a suite of programs for the Analysis of Digital Elevation Data. David has prepared exe-files for Windows users. TARDEM should, in principle, run also on Unices. Perhaps anyone likes to test this and report to David? Thanks goes to David. Regards Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Thu May 11 13:31:57 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:31:57 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] GRASS 5.0beta6 for PPC Message-ID: <20000511133157.A10575@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> Dear all, finally, we now have also GRASS for PPC. We applied gcc 2.95.2. However, a bug fix was required to compile all modules successfully. The packages GRASS-5.0beta6-2.ppc.rpm GRASS-5.0beta6-2.src.rpm are placed at ftp://intevation.de/freegis/gnu-linux-ppc/updates/ Regards Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From acuster at nopause.berkeley.edu Fri May 12 04:22:07 2000 From: acuster at nopause.berkeley.edu (Adrian Vance Custer) Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:22:07 -0700 Subject: [Freegis-list] Paper on the pieces of a free gis. Message-ID: <20000511192207.A27082@nopause.berkeley.edu> Hello everyone, I've put together some thoughts on how a free GIS could be assembled. It needs some fleshing out but it's a starting point. My intent is to build an object oriented GIS- I call it gnuGIS- which can be used for wierd kinds of analysis. I'm hoping to figure out the object structures, the search tree structure, and how to modularize the whole thing through the implementation of API layers. Eventually, I'll develop the details of different possible implementations. The FMaps project is taking a particular slant towards search structures-putting everything in the database- and I'll be interested to see how it goes. So I've attached the document as a .pdf file. I hope it's not too big an attachment for anyone-if so I'm sorry and if you let me know, I won't do it again- Thanks, adrian acuster at nature.berkeley.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gnugis_white-paper_version1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 248002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.intevation.de/pipermail/freegis-list/attachments/20000511/8ead4f66/gnugis_white-paper_version1.pdf From joe at galway.net Wed May 17 00:46:16 2000 From: joe at galway.net (Joe Desbonnet) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:46:16 +0100 Subject: [Freegis-list] map composing software? Message-ID: <20000516234616.A6620@m1.wombat.ie> I am constructing my own street map of a town in Ireland (as our national Ordinance Survey charge ridiculous fees for use of their data). I am doing the surveying myself using a GPS unit (now that SA is off I am getting excellent quality data). I've already written a Java map viewer (see http://www.wombat.ie/java/galwayexplorer/ ) Currently I construct the map data by manually entering co-ordinates into a text file. I find this very, very tedious and has been the main obstacle to completing this project. I'm looking for software whereby I can compose the map graphically by importing all my raw GPS points and maybe some aerial photos and then drawing over this layer with line segments, polygons etc. Can anyone suggest something that might suit my needs? Ideally this software should run on Linux/unix, but I would consider using Windows if necessary. Regards, Joe Desbonnet joe at galway.net From jan at intevation.de Wed May 17 10:13:39 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:13:39 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] map composing software? In-Reply-To: <20000516234616.A6620@m1.wombat.ie>; from joe@galway.net on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 11:46:16PM +0100 References: <20000516234616.A6620@m1.wombat.ie> Message-ID: <20000517101339.A4297@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> Hi Joe, On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 11:46:16PM +0100, Joe Desbonnet wrote: > I am constructing my own street map of a town in Ireland (as our national > Ordinance Survey charge ridiculous fees for use of their data). > > I am doing the surveying myself using a GPS unit (now that SA is off I am > getting excellent quality data). I've already written a Java map viewer (see > http://www.wombat.ie/java/galwayexplorer/ ) wow, thats ridiculous. Just two days ago I was contacted by someone approaching the same for the city of Oslo, Norway. They will have a website soon, perhaps already this week. It is their plan to create Free Data and licensed with the GPL or a more suiting license in the same spirit. > Currently I construct the map data by manually entering co-ordinates into a > text file. I find this very, very tedious and has been the main obstacle to > completing this project. > > I'm looking for software whereby I can compose the map graphically by > importing all my raw GPS points and maybe some aerial photos and then > drawing over this layer with line segments, polygons etc. > > Can anyone suggest something that might suit my needs? Ideally this software > should run on Linux/unix, but I would consider using Windows if necessary. The Oslo people are planning an automatic system that will transfer data from the GPS (with support of the library JEEPS) to GRASS and then to a web page. All this is also a Linux solution - and all is GPLed. In a short discussion we unfolded the idea to extend initiatives all over Europe wherever we can find interested people with GPSs. Linking the effords will make such a project recognized and perhaps put some pressure on authorities to release their (at least some basic) GI data as Free Data. Regards Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Wed May 17 10:44:36 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:44:36 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] Paper on the pieces of a free gis. In-Reply-To: <20000511192207.A27082@nopause.berkeley.edu>; from acuster@nopause.berkeley.edu on Thu, May 11, 2000 at 07:22:07PM -0700 References: <20000511192207.A27082@nopause.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20000517104436.C4297@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Thu, May 11, 2000 at 07:22:07PM -0700, Adrian Vance Custer wrote: > I've put together some thoughts on how a free GIS could be assembled. It needs > some fleshing out but it's a starting point. My intent is to build an object > oriented GIS- I call it gnuGIS- which can be used for wierd kinds of analysis. > I'm hoping to figure out the object structures, the search tree structure, and > how to modularize the whole thing through the implementation of API layers. > Eventually, I'll develop the details of different possible implementations. The > FMaps project is taking a particular slant towards search structures-putting > everything in the database- and I'll be interested to see how it goes. First of all: I have put the document onto our web-server at ftp://intevation.de/freegis/misc/ so you all can refer to it if you need to. Adrian, would it be possible for you to put the text as html pages somewhere on a server? We can place it on the FreeGIS server if you like, but I would need something else than PDF format. As you all know GIS is a extremely complex thing. Many facettes have developed different views on what a GIS, how it should work and what it should deliver. At the moment I seen several people wishing to create a new, free GIS system that should be superior to what they use right now (fmaps, OSSIM, GeoPoly and people like Adrian). I see fresh ideas presented for discussion and I really appreciate this. Still there are several GIS packages (GRASS being the most prominent one) which are very powerful and can already be used to solve problems. Their drawbacks are often a miserable user interface and old programming styles (makeing it difficult to work on the source codes). To my mind there will never be 'the one and only ultimate free GIS'. A set of applications will exist. In some areas at a competitive level, in some areas at a cooperative level. Both increases quality of the product. For the near future I propose to combine the new ideas with the existing software. Lets discuss what realy needs to be replaced in the existing tools and what can be incorporated in an intelligent way. My idea is that we primarily need smart user interface shells abstracting what is used below. This essentially means that we should make existing stuff act as (forgive me this fancy word) components. Adrians object oriented approach could be model for this. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From acuster at nopause.berkeley.edu Wed May 17 19:43:36 2000 From: acuster at nopause.berkeley.edu (Adrian Vance Custer) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:43:36 -0700 Subject: [Freegis-list] Paper on the pieces of a free gis. Message-ID: <20000517104336.C2803@nopause.berkeley.edu> Hello everyone, > Adrian, would it be possible for you to put the text as html pages > somewhere on a server? We can place it on the FreeGIS server if you like, > but I would need something else than PDF format. The paper is up as a .pdf file at http://nopause.berkeley.edu/gnugis/ I'll work on learning docbook and getting this re-written as an sgml file and posted as html. > To my mind there will never be 'the one and only ultimate free GIS'. Yes, this is becoming more and more apparent as many uses of gis (simple mapping, routing) are already being catered to by simple java programs on the web. My personal kick is ecological analysis and we need a lot more power to do that effectively. Then writing the power so that ecologists can use it will be another challenge. > This essentially means that we should make existing stuff act as > (forgive me this fancy word) components. What this will take, I believe, is to lay out functional limits and define API layers to isolate one function from another. That's what I'll put my mind to when I get to work again. Wasted a day re-installing Linux from scratch-a year of upgrading had finally made the system unusable. Wow, gnome has progressed in the past year! VERY COOL. :-) ciao, adrian From jonny.birkelund at iname.com Fri May 19 01:52:27 2000 From: jonny.birkelund at iname.com (Jonny Birkelund) Date: 18 May 2000 23:52:27 +0000 Subject: [Freegis-list] freemap project in Oslo, Norway. Message-ID: <86puqjbemc.fsf@iscariot.local.net> hi, Just to inform you, There is a project currently running here in Oslo Norway to break the map monopoly. What we do is: - manually walking/driving around here in Oslo and track every street with a gps. We dump this data into grass and build a vector-based map from there. There is also a project to automatically doing this, so everything a user would do is to send the trk-log to an email adress, and then it will show up on web with a ranking list of people involved, with distance logged. The web adress is www.freemap.net.org (sorry nothing in english yet, but it will come pretty soon) But in short, there is just some politicially bullshit about why there should be free vectormaps and how they would get more votes if they gave this information away.. I would not hold my breath though, but it is a good start. We did something similar with the norwegian laws, scanning all the constitution and laws (some 3300 pages of small text with bibel-like papers) and pushed the cause hard. After a while we actually managed to get free electronic laws. (www.lovdata.no) Not bad from a bunch of poor students. /Jonny From jan at intevation.de Fri May 19 15:17:02 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:17:02 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] Paper on the pieces of a free gis. In-Reply-To: <20000517104336.C2803@nopause.berkeley.edu>; from acuster@nopause.berkeley.edu on Wed, May 17, 2000 at 10:43:36AM -0700 References: <20000517104336.C2803@nopause.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20000519151702.A29364@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Wed, May 17, 2000 at 10:43:36AM -0700, Adrian Vance Custer wrote: > The paper is up as a .pdf file at > > http://nopause.berkeley.edu/gnugis/ > > I'll work on learning docbook and getting this re-written as an sgml file > and posted as html. Great. I have added a link to your page at the FreeGIS activities page. Perhaps we can draw some further attention on this and provoke a fruitful discussion. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Fri May 19 17:24:13 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:24:13 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] FREEMAP Message-ID: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> I have added a link to the FREEMAP efford Jonny Birkelund has reported. It is on the activities page of FreeGIS. So far only in Norwegian, but you can have a look on the map. We need more of this! Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From neteler at geog.uni-hannover.de Fri May 19 18:19:47 2000 From: neteler at geog.uni-hannover.de (Markus Neteler) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:19:47 +0100 Subject: [Freegis-list] FREEMAP In-Reply-To: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE>; from jan@intevation.de on Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:24:13PM +0200 References: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> Message-ID: <20000519171947.D10650@hgeo02.geog.uni-hannover.de> On Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:24:13PM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote: > I have added a link to the FREEMAP efford > Jonny Birkelund has reported. It is on > the activities page of FreeGIS. > > So far only in Norwegian, but you can > have a look on the map. > > We need more of this! Hi all, what about an announcement on comp.infosystems.gis ? Many people are reading there and a few may contribute. Best wishes Markus From jan at intevation.de Fri May 19 17:31:58 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:31:58 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] FREEMAP In-Reply-To: <20000519171947.D10650@hgeo02.geog.uni-hannover.de>; from neteler@geog.uni-hannover.de on Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:19:47PM +0100 References: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> <20000519171947.D10650@hgeo02.geog.uni-hannover.de> Message-ID: <20000519173158.B2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:19:47PM +0100, Markus Neteler wrote: > On Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:24:13PM +0200, Jan-Oliver Wagner wrote: > > I have added a link to the FREEMAP efford > > Jonny Birkelund has reported. It is on > > the activities page of FreeGIS. > > > > So far only in Norwegian, but you can > > have a look on the map. > > > > We need more of this! > Hi all, > > what about an announcement on > comp.infosystems.gis > ? > Many people are reading there and a few > may contribute. Jonny is working on an english translation. I recommend to wait with PR so that we have a more immediate motivation effect with the englisch version. It is really hard at the moment to go through the norwegian text (and I only do understand some parts due to German, Englisch and Latin). Still man words must have a different origin. :-) Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From acuster at nopause.berkeley.edu Fri May 19 19:36:42 2000 From: acuster at nopause.berkeley.edu (Adrian Vance Custer) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:36:42 -0700 Subject: [Freegis-list] FREEMAP In-Reply-To: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE>; from jan@intevation.de on Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:24:13PM +0200 References: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> Message-ID: <20000519103642.B5510@nopause.berkeley.edu> Hey here's another discussion we need to have. How do we set up a suitable stucture so that we can slowly map the world with GPS. This is tied to gis but is really about metatdata and components. I have GPS'ed the most accurate map in the world of a tiny little area of Africa (Pawe Special Woreda, Metekel Zone, Benishangul-Gumuz National Regional State, Ethiopia or 36degEast 11degNorth). For anyone else to use it though they have to: - believe me or - be able to check me (e.g. many returns to same spot of different days; survey of a known spot...) or - use my data until they get something better and then replace my data. The free gis community needs to come up with a well documented way of building up data sets from many disparate pieces and being able to cross check the pieces and discard those that don't fit or update pieces with newer ones. I'm thinking of a cvs of gps data or some such thing. IS IT POSSIBLE? -adrian acuster at nature.berkeley.edu From jan at intevation.de Mon May 22 09:37:03 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:37:03 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] FREEMAP In-Reply-To: <20000519103642.B5510@nopause.berkeley.edu>; from acuster@nopause.berkeley.edu on Fri, May 19, 2000 at 10:36:42AM -0700 References: <20000519172413.A2164@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> <20000519103642.B5510@nopause.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20000522093703.B11357@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Fri, May 19, 2000 at 10:36:42AM -0700, Adrian Vance Custer wrote: > Hey here's another discussion we need to have. How do we set up a suitable > stucture so that we can slowly map the world with GPS. This is tied to > gis but is really about metatdata and components. Good comment. I also have spend some time thinking on how this can be supported at a technical level and what method of quality assurance could be used. > I have GPS'ed the most accurate map in the world of a tiny little area of > Africa (Pawe Special Woreda, Metekel Zone, Benishangul-Gumuz National Regional > State, Ethiopia or 36degEast 11degNorth). For anyone else to use it though they have to: > - believe me > or > - be able to check me (e.g. many returns to same spot of different days; survey > of a known spot...) > or > - use my data until they get something better and then replace my data. Can you release these data as Free Data and put ir on the web? > The free gis community needs to come up with a well documented way of building > up data sets from many disparate pieces and being able to cross check the > pieces and discard those that don't fit or update pieces with newer ones. I'm > thinking of a cvs of gps data or some such thing. > > IS IT POSSIBLE? My answer is YES, but we need to elaborate many further methods. We can not know them all right now, so in principle, we should start anyway with collecting some (yet unlinked) GI datasets. What we highly will depend on to have clear quality definitions are trust metrics for data. This might remind on technologies applied with CVS, but what we need goes much farther. Trust metrics express a level acceptability of data derived from expert judgement, applied sampling method, stability of reporting, trust level of authors and perhaps some more. The trust metrics must work in a self-organising way. What do you think? Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jonny.birkelund at iname.com Mon May 22 16:39:47 2000 From: jonny.birkelund at iname.com (Jonny Birkelund) Date: 22 May 2000 14:39:47 +0000 Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: Freemap In-Reply-To: freegis-list-request@intevation.de's message of "Mon, 22 May 2000 12:00:03 +0200 (CEST)" References: <20000522100003.89D453C04D@intevation.de> Message-ID: <86ln121wek.fsf@iscariot.local.net> Hi, > > Hey here's another discussion we need to have. How do we set up a suitable > > stucture so that we can slowly map the world with GPS. This is tied to > > gis but is really about metatdata and components. > > Good comment. I also have spend some time thinking on how this > can be supported at a technical level and what method > of quality assurance could be used. > Hi, We cant assure the user that metadata is correct, and IMHO they wont be interested in this either, partly because there the gps generates a minor error already (shadow from trees, buildings etc) and also the government map agency is not accurate either. (horrible on seamaps) So the questions on accurate maps will be something the governement will use to try to kill project like this. I think the right thing to do is not to worry too much about accuracy today and what today users is think about maps. I couldnt dream abut the widespread use of Internet back in 1990 when I first started to use this at the University. Mabye there would be something with GPS too? Everyone will have a gps in his watch, mobiletelephone, car etc in 3-4 years That means a tremendous need for diffent kind of maps. My dream is a system which transmit a route-log from their mobilephones into the freemapproject or similar with their latest track.log they find useful to share with others. Slowly we will generate a really big map-database totally free of ugly money-hungry governments. The best and fastest way to build a database is getting involved with big car-makers who is in really need of maps. (BMW dont have any good maps here in Oslo for their cars) A logging system from every car they sell here would be wonderful. The same goes for every Taxi. They already have GPS in their cars. /Jonny From jan at intevation.de Mon May 22 16:38:26 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:38:26 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] Re: Freemap In-Reply-To: <86ln121wek.fsf@iscariot.local.net>; from jonny.birkelund@iname.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 02:39:47PM +0000 References: <20000522100003.89D453C04D@intevation.de> <86ln121wek.fsf@iscariot.local.net> Message-ID: <20000522163826.A15982@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 02:39:47PM +0000, Jonny Birkelund wrote: > We cant assure the user that metadata is correct, and IMHO they wont > be interested in this either, partly because there the gps generates a > minor error already (shadow from trees, buildings etc) and also the > government map agency is not accurate either. (horrible on seamaps) Yes. 'Correctness' is probably a wrong term here. GI have always a number of uncertainties involved. Besides a trust level, a precision level must be considered. > So the questions on accurate maps will be something the governement > will use to try to kill project like this. A government can not kill such a project. How should they do it? Nonetheless we must try to create impressive datasets and prove that the idea is a good and efficient one. Imagine how much the 'official' did cost ... > I think the right thing to do is not to worry too much about accuracy > today and what today users is think about maps. I couldnt dream abut > the widespread use of Internet back in 1990 when I first started to > use this at the University. Mabye there would be something with GPS > too? Everyone will have a gps in his watch, mobiletelephone, car etc > in 3-4 years That means a tremendous need for diffent kind of maps. My > dream is a system which transmit a route-log from their mobilephones > into the freemapproject or similar with their latest track.log they > find useful to share with others. The collection of just 'coordinates' is not all. There need to be attribute information. Attributes and topology is the most valuable in GI data sets. Its a pity that a Free GI project must start with collecting even the coordinates, because we can not start with the presently available data. > Slowly we will generate a really big map-database totally free of ugly > money-hungry governments. We must win the governments to contribute their data as Free Data. The governments are not evil - they just need to be convinced that the Free Data approach brings more advantages and a higher quality than a proprietary approach. At the moment governments consult the wrong people regarding this issue, furthermore the Open Source idea is relatively new with its professionality. > The best and fastest way to build a database is getting involved with > big car-makers who is in really need of maps. (BMW dont have any good > maps here in Oslo for their cars) A logging system from every car they > sell here would be wonderful. The same goes for every Taxi. They > already have GPS in their cars. Again the attribute problem. The cars don't read the street names where they are driving :-) Another way to get digital coordinates is to digitize from aerial or satellite images. These can be bought and digitized data can be Free Data. (It is not allowed to digitize from other maps as far as I know) Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/ From jan at intevation.de Thu May 25 15:44:58 2000 From: jan at intevation.de (Jan-Oliver Wagner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:44:58 +0200 Subject: [Freegis-list] FreeGIS updates Message-ID: <20000525154458.B21811@cheops.usf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE> FREEMAP: the links to the norwegian page are replaced by links to the (new) english page. Thanks to Jonny. minor improvements: MITAB: new revision 1.0.1 libgeotiff: new revision 1.1.2 I also have added ArcExplorer to the list of non-free GIS software. This was needed, because ESRI has urged me to add ArcExplorer to the FreeGIS list as the most important free GIS software. I realized that the concept of Free Software is still not very well understood (or just not recognized) by some people. Jan -- Jan-Oliver Wagner http://intevation.de/~jan/ Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ FreeGIS http://freegis.org/